We were doing ok until we opened all the schools....

[Bbq1]

After lockdown was lifted pre September and pubs, restaurants etc were opened we seemed to have a handle on Covid with cases, hospital admissions and deaths all declining fairly steadily. Since we released millions of school aged children and thousands of teachers etc back into the classroom- boom, cases and consequently deaths, are now growing very rapidly again. It didn't take a rocket scientist to work out that this would happen. I work in a school and I have a 15 year old starting his gcse's so I 100% don't want the schools to close but surely there must be a more workable solution? Couldn't schools be one week, one week off for different bubbles or alternate days? Nobody wants schools to shut but surely in the long term if we don't get something safer in place and just continue sending kids and adults in day after day, then eventually they will close again?

At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, it appears that the number of schools closing, bubbles bursting is no longer behind reported. The first two weeks, in a my area, the Covid situation in schools was reported on a daily basis. Suddenly, nothing.

Yet, I come one here are saying otherwise, my fun timeline is full of kids being sent home, my son has has three teachers self isolating, teaching lessons by zoom and my son’s best friend (and 3 siblings) were sent home from School yesterday and told to return once tested.

Yet somehow, many posters seem to be ready to accept this ‘education’ as completely normal and successful.

it doesn't matter how many schools have a case in them, what does matter is how many cases in those schools and whether they can contain them.

Schools need more funding, so many schools have already been affected and more schools closures are expected. Some schools don’t apply common sense. What is this new only one year group in at a time nonsense? Their siblings don’t disappear which will always leads to crowds near the entrance. As parents won’t leave until they got ALL their children inside the class/ playground. Last year on rainy days, the classroom doors were wide open 5min before the school bell and my children just entered their class and I waked off after witnessing that. There were no queues and the playground was empty. So why not use rainy day rules? No, now they need to only allow one year group in and out at the same time. Why not let children enter their classrooms up to 20min and pick a book up independently to read, until the bell goes? I’m fully aware some children can’t read but school can get suitable picture books. Ds1 school used to do this from when he was in reception.

Schools have transmitted the virus, especially the ones that insisted on full school uniforms. The queues were longer two weeks before schools started. They needed to be flexible for at least for a month. But no.

In response to posters saying their school is ‘organised’ and that’s why there are no cases. It’s not exactly true. You’re lucky.

I live and work in a lockdown area. All schools in a 6 mile radius to me have had at least one positive case. My own school have had two in one year group.

We can’t stagger starts or end of the day because we have a lot of pupils who travel from out of their area so rely on school coaches.

We have increased our intake over the last few years but the building size hasn’t increased. Dfe guidance stated any measures must not impede on teaching time so although we zone pupils they share the same toilet facilities and canteen.

It’s not that we have poor organisation. Some things are out of our control.

I just watched a clip of raab saying the spike was schools and universities. On CNN.

For the last time I did not say there were no cases because the school is organised.
I am well aware of how the virus is transmitted.

At the moment infection rates are still very low
@cologne4711 they most certainly are not.

Just over a fifth of all outbreaks in the wb 13th September were in educational settings , public health England data shows

Transparency would be a list of numbers by LA on the main news....
Even local papers are having to be informed by parents.

How can people look at that map and say it's a success?

From the welsh data that was 30% of times it did spread at school. And it's not like they test the kids that are off so would likely be much higher than that and with more cases arising as time goes on

@IloveJKRowling

I agree that children need to be in school, it isn't good for their mental health or education not to be, parents need to work and the economy needs to be supported. So there's the conundrum. We can't shut the country down forever and a vaccine is some way off...

But there literally are so many other things that constitute safer opening and in this country we're ignoring it all which is MUCH more likely to result in closed school eventually (and already is for many students isolating with lack of test).

Italy, Spain, many states in the US, Korea - we have a load of different models and lots of scientific papers about it. Advice from Unicef, advice from the WHO. This is what they all say safer school reopening looks like:

• smaller class sizes (no more than 15) - you can achieve this by using community spaces as Italy has done and as my daughter's primary could do if the DfE hadn't flat out blocked using the village hall (offered to use for free) and refused to support the cost of extra TAs
• social distancing (obviously goes with smaller class sizes)
• masks where social distancing of 2m not possible
• if the above not possible: half the school in half time, rest home learning (obviously school open full time only for key workers / vulnerable kids). SURELY that would be better than a lockdown which is where we're headed?

This

Infection rates in our borough are now lower than they were a few weeks ago. So I think the picture can vary wildly depending on where you are in the country. No confirmed cases in any local schools; no school closures; no isolation of any bubbles. I’m in the SE bordering a London borough.

@Wtfdoipick

it doesn't matter how many schools have a case in them, what does matter is how many cases in those schools and whether they can contain them.

Of course it matters how many schools have a case in them, because every case in a school means kids and/or teachers sent home to isolate, missing a fortnight of school. Those containment measures involve part closures of schools.

I think it is the control of the cases that matters most. We can't completely stop adults and children catching Covid-19 from any area of life. At my DC school there have been 4-5 cases, but I gather that most of these were caught out of school. The in-school transmission has been minimal. I guess you could question how long that will last, but my DC school does at least enforce masks in communal places and buses and bus queues etc, which would have prevented some of the potential transmission. I don't know personally what protective measures are in place to prevent transmission between staff, e.g. in the staff room, but I really hope there are some.
But still adults and children can catch coronavirus from other places and other people, and the cases my DC school demonstrates that. If schools were to have an R number, even with 4-5 cases, I think the R number would be below 1.

And none of the cases were teachers, I should add.

Concerned splitting KW out may be the case but you still have the same resource and space issue.

but my DC school does at least enforce masks in communal places

For some reason, classrooms don’t count as communal spaces despite them being large groups mixing in close contact in poorly ventilated conditions for extended periods.

If that was happening outside of a school, Priti Patel would be demanding you shop everybody to the police.

@noblegiraffe What I mean is that saying 1000 schools (made up number) have a case in them is not the whole story, in itself it is not a frightening statistic. If the school can contain the case with minimal disruption and it doesn't act as a seeding event then that is a completely different situation to a school with say 1 child coming in and infecting 20 others who then go home and infect their households etc etc. the first situation is a victim of the rise in numbers, the second is driving the rise in numbers.

The idea that schools can contain cases given the conditions they are operating is is just wishful thinking.

@noblegiraffe I do think some of the teachers are wearing some sort of PPE at my DC school as well though - definitely some are wearing visors. I can't see why anyone would object to a visor.

@noblegiraffe - the year groups with the 4 of the case have been sent home for 2 weeks though - so they are containing the cases! No-one can pass on Covid-19 while isolated at home.

Not read the whole thread but we did blended learning in June- yes workload was higher but we managed. Basically teach half class/ day off for cleaning then teach other half. Children at home consolidated what was taught in school. Staff obviously not teaching live lessons/ available. This is better for learning but obviously not as good a a week in/out for covid exposure.

Now I know not all parents can support at home but at the very least online games to reinforce can be set if all have access to computers( a government promise? Lol) Also perhaps outdoor sports camps could fill the gap- as long as they take kids in class bubbles then no more rock?

Would also point out that blended learning can work in terms of coverage as you get through loads more with smaller class sizes and each child will get at least as much 1:1 as the would in 1 week of 30 kids.

Working parents- honestly I think we're screwed anyway atm what's better, regular time off or random fortnights????? Lots of school staff have exactly the same concerns.

@Remmy123

No because how do parents go to work?? Do you really want to do this and feck with our kids education?

My kids are at x3 different primary and secondary schools - not one year has closed down!

These are such stupid statements.

School doesn't exist to provide childcare so that parents can work. It's just convenient that it serves that purpose.

The main reason for getting an education is to further your opportunities in LIFE. So you have to be ALIVE.

If opening schools is dangerous (which I'm not giving an opinion on in any way), then childcare should be provided by the government to allow eligible parents to go back to work. Teachers didn't sign up to be childminders, and it's not fair that nobody seems to give a shit that they're anxious about all of this. They're humans ffs.

These are such stupid statements

No, they're not. They're entirely valid.

School doesn't exist to provide childcare so that parents can work. It's just convenient that it serves that purpose

THIS is what is a stupid statement. Schools are childcare. Because one your child is enrolled they have to attend. They go set days and times every week. You're expected to find work once your children are at school, because the government know they are being cared for elsewhere and therefore you are available to work. Until the government expect you to stay home until your youngest child is a teenager, schools are childcare.

The main reason for getting an education is to further your opportunities in LIFE. So you have to be ALIVE

Covid does not routinely kill children. What's your point?

If opening schools is dangerous (which I'm not giving an opinion on in any way), then childcare should be provided by the government to allow eligible parents to go back to work. Teachers didn't sign up to be childminders, and it's not fair that nobody seems to give a shit that they're anxious about all of this. They're humans ffs

If schools arent safe what makes you think any kind of childcare is safe? Teachers signed up to be teachers, and they cannot do that while schools are closed, not to the same standard anyway. They also signed up to safeguard children, which they also cannot do if they dont see them.

I give a shit that teachers are anxious. Same as i give a shit about everyone else, but we cant just point blank close schools because people are scared. I am sure some supermarket workers, doctors, nurses, firemen are anxious but we cant shut their services down either.

I think it would have been more sensible to reopen educational establishments, but keep everything else closed as far as possible. Work from home, etc.

Once schools, Unis etc are running smoothly and we could see what effect that was having on the figures, then look at reopening other things. I would have expected leisure activities to be one of hte last things to restart (and my dh is a musician and has NO WORK AT ALL and won't for the foreseeable, so as a family that would be awful for us).

Though truthfully I would have far rather seen the Gov thinking outside the box and considering alternative ways to rebuild society from the bottom up, perfect opportunity to change things radically. They can't work worse than they were before COVID really can they?

[quote ProperlyPdOff]@noblegiraffe - the year groups with the 4 of the case have been sent home for 2 weeks though - so they are containing the cases! No-one can pass on Covid-19 while isolated at home.[/quote]
You mean you hope they have contained the cases.

This school in Solihull just had to completely close for two weeks because despite sending two year groups home, they couldn't contain the cases. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-54261485

"In the letter, the school said it was initially able to manage the situation, by identifying isolated cases and asking students to self isolate. This had led to the decision to isolate all students in years eight and 12.
But it said the situation had changed and that it was "concerned about on-site transmission, where we are unable to effectively identify the source of the outbreak".
"Public Health England were concerned over the probable further transmission of the virus between students and staff despite our robust protective measures," the letter said."