My teens are saying they will ignore any new restrictions

[WearyandBleary]

Big argument this evening. My teens are saying they will ignore any new restrictions because they are mixing at school/college anyway, so what’s the point of not mixing outside of school?

They are really furious. I am quite shocked at how angry they are.

Are they being really selfish? I’m so cross with them. How are other people’s teens taking the possibility of more restrictions?

@KnobChops

I agree that it’s hard to tell teenagers off when senior lockdown advocates (Cummings, Ferguson etc) did what the hell they wanted. If I was a young person I too would be bloody cross that my current and future life was being fucked over to save a load of boomers who voted for Brexit and 4 Tory election wins. All the things they enjoyed (Cheaper homes, university grants, child benefit) they have voted to remove from young people. And who continuously mock young people calling them snowflakes. Since when did that age group show any care towards anyone except themselves?

Totally agree

We are all at risk. Not only the elderly and high risk groups. Young fit people got it. Still fighting the consequences. Some have died. Not just a few, quite a lot of the deaths were out of the high risk groups. And we are not talking much about the guys who are left breathless after walking the length of a room.... and they will take long time to recover from it.
We do need to be as cautious as we can. Yes we are all fed up, not only teenagers, but we must do all we can to protect each other.

I do feel the rules are quite random by now.... but I comply.
I miss doing some things, just even something different.... but we stay local or in the garden, depending on the local rules at the time.
I miss my family.... I will not see them in person this year, just texts and video calls.
I get hot with a mask..... still wear it where the rules ask me to.
And so on.
And we all should abide the rules to the best of our abilities. Because we are all affected by it.

We are all bored of it. Every single one of us. You do the right thing or you are a selfish test. Simple choice really.
Hard for kids to get that. As it is hard for kids to understand a lot of things that seem daft and confusing. They seem daft and confusing to everyone. But you still have that basic choice.

By test I meant twat. Too early to swear😂🥺😂

How is what @Arealnumber said displaying a lack of morality @TheClaws ? In a civilised, mature society perhaps we need to have a serious debate about which impacts on which groups we should accept as a society in order to protect others. It’s clear we can’t prevent all covid deaths without incurring huge costs in other deaths, in economic impact in education etc etc. So the choice in what and who to prioritise is hugely political and perhaps there should have been or be some massive listening exercises to help inform policy.

Stating you’re vulnerable and don’t want to be protected at the cost of others and that you’re not surprised young people are fed up isn’t immoral.

I don’t blame them for being angry and I think it’s awful that you are threatening to kick them out for it. It’s a really hard, not to mention confusing time, especially for naturally sociable teenagers who’s wings are being clipped. Try showing them some compassion and understanding.

I agree with the teens. The rules seem so inconsistent. DC15 in a bubble of 250. Sat in packed classrooms and in busy corridors 8 hours a day. DC18 travels on public transport to college to another large bubble. BF works in city centre office travelling by train. That's the exposure to risk in our household. But seeing my family or friends isn't allowed. Unless we meet in a pub or restaurant?

@MadameBlobby

I would be so angry if I was a teenager. Fucked over with Brexit by selfish old boomers who won’t even be around for the fallout of that and now expected to sacrifice their education and social lives to protect them from an illness.

This is an uncomfortable but undeniably valid point. I say this as someone from a family where the elderly were 100% Remain voters, which is not an achievement the younger generations share.

It's not a particularly intelligent strategy to expect those who are at lowest risk and who lose most from restrictions to continue complying with them, in order to protect a group who as a cohort have fucked them over.

I don't blame them. My 12 Yr old said the same. The rules don't make sense anymore. Mine went to a trampoline park with a friend yesterday and 98 random kids, this is allowed. But he can't play out on our street with his 2 best friends, the ones he goes to school with, sits in a class with and whom train together 2 nights a week.

@zoemum2006

We gave the government 6 months and they failed to set up the measures to allow children to go back to school for more than a few weeks.

I don’t blame your kids in the slightest for being annoyed. I’m livid myself.

We gave the government 6 months

What an extraordinarily stupid attitude.

Thanks all, I have been more sympathetic this morning.

It is the inconsistent/incoherent government messaging (and examples) that are infuriating.

The point someone made that school bubbles could have been allowed to socialise is a good one. One dc has six in college who are allowed close contact for lab work etc. What’s the evidence for additional risk meeting to socialise outside of that?

I get it: I am stressed, dc and me have bad asthma but I don’t think there’s a long term way of managing this I guess. There’s no leadership offering any sort of realistic hope.

And yes if this had effected young people, there’s no way the government would have asked the elderly and middle aged to stay at home! It’s laughable.

And yes if this had effected young people, there’s no way the government would have asked the elderly and middle aged to stay at home! It’s laughable

Not to mention shouldering the cost. That’s what gets me. The young will be paying back what it cost to protect rich baby boomers for years if not decades.

Please, if you believe your child should be breaking the law, then keep them out of school.

Maybe that way schools could be safer and also remain open.

@Beebeeboo2

It's because kids are mixing at school that we all have to be extra careful about not mixing unnecessarily elsewhere. I have a DD who's a single child and loves having friends over, but I've explained to her that if she's going to school and seeing her dad, then we've "used up" our "contact budget".

Yes, we're doing all this to keep the schools open. If kids were really getting screwed over we'd shut the schools.

Mush

Approx 450 people under 45 who had no (known) underlying conditions have died with covid

I say with because no death has been shown to be from covid- wording explicitly says ‘deaths after testing positive’

Out of 67 million

Hardly loads really is it

@Linaya

How is what *@Arealnumber said displaying a lack of morality @TheClaws* ? In a civilised, mature society perhaps we need to have a serious debate about which impacts on which groups we should accept as a society in order to protect others. It’s clear we can’t prevent all covid deaths without incurring huge costs in other deaths, in economic impact in education etc etc. So the choice in what and who to prioritise is hugely political and perhaps there should have been or be some massive listening exercises to help inform policy.

Stating you’re vulnerable and don’t want to be protected at the cost of others and that you’re not surprised young people are fed up isn’t immoral.

I didn't say it was immoral, but amoral. Big difference. And society is not civilised if it doesn't want to protect its elderly and vulnerable just because kids' education has been wobbly for a few months.

I'm sorry but this is the point where I want to scream. All any normal person (+scientists) is asking of anyone is to wear a fucking mask, stay 2 meters apart and wash your hands!!!!

This is where I want to scream because you seem to have missed the last few days!! They’re going to bring in more restrictions you fool! That’s what the thread is about! Geez. Do you want to cripple the hospitality industry? Social distancing is massively burdening businesses right now, it costs them. You seemingly aren’t thinking about any of that at all

@Ginogineli But millions of people have underlying health conditions in the UK and many of them are perfectly manageable with medication (mild asthma for example).

The fact 450 apparently perfectly healthy people have dropped dead over the last few months from COVID is not in itself insignificant or reassuring. If I dropped dead from COVID i'd go down as an 'underlying health condition' statistic when i'm young and healthy.

Same here @OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer. I know lots of older people are not like that (my own parents for example) but plenty are (my father in law for example)

@redgin

I just don't get what's hard to understand 🤬🤬

Reduce the risk of spread by reducing contact. Schools and work are necessary. Seeing your mates after school or work isn't.

What's not obvious?

Because it still isn't logical.

My daughters are spending 6 hours a day in small classrooms with others, where very little SD takes place.

If we see further restrictions on socialising in future, then at least young people should be able to socialise with the same people they are spending all day with anyway.

Reducing contact makes sense. Allowing people to spend all day in school with others, but not out of school outside, where the risk of transmission is much lower, doesn't. Children should be allowed to at least socialise outside down the park with the same people they share a cramped classroom with, if further restrictions are brought in.

The test system is a disgrace. If I wanted to get a test I would have to travel a 6 hour round trip. The one thing that would really make a difference is a working test and trace system. The government fucked that up, and want to blame us for not following rules, after encouraging us to go back to work and eat out in the first place.

@TheKeatingFive

And yes if this had effected young people, there’s no way the government would have asked the elderly and middle aged to stay at home! It’s laughable

Not to mention shouldering the cost. That’s what gets me. The young will be paying back what it cost to protect rich baby boomers for years if not decades.

Ugh. You're back on the disgusting 'pay back' narrative? Is your mind like a nest of wasps?

Do you want to cripple the hospitality industry? Social distancing is massively burdening businesses right now, it costs them. You seemingly aren’t thinking about any of that at all

How does hospitality function with high levels of virus, I don't understand why normal numbers of customers would go. The virus fucks hospitality, because a large percentage of customers won't attend.

OK @TheClaws Amoral then. Why is it amoral one way and not the other? Protecting the elderly and the vulnerable comes at great cost to the (many magnitudes larger) group of everyone else who is not. Why is that moral? Why is it moral to protect one group at the expense of another? I want to live by principles of consent, of being able to regard the whole situation and weigh up what is best for everyone, not just one group. I don't think that's amoral.

It's so easy to shout about morality and protecting the vulnerable and rather convenient to ignore that protecting them comes at costs to others which surely also needs to factor into things. So my question is at what point to the costs to society as a whole become so high that other options should be considered? A further 20% drop in GDP? Which percentage of homeless, jobless etc is acceptable? Which cultural and artistic institutions do we lose? What rise in other non-covid conditions are acceptable? It's not so easy when you look at it that way.

How is asking these questions or indeed sympathising with very frustrated young people amoral?

To be clear we have complied with all rules including my kids. Now schools are back we are doing nothing except school and going to work. But I completely understand how cheated our young people must feel and how failed they have been.