“ any decent vulnerable person would not want the rest of us to suffer “

[Longestride25]

Usual post via social media accounts but this one struck me more than usual.
Was a usual post about anti mask wearing / not wanting any restrictions in place etc
There defence was any decent vulnerable person would know that everyone has to die at sometime and they we should not all sacrifice our enjoyment in life for them.
I read it a few times ( I have a young daughter still on the extremely vulnerable list for further shielding )
Are we really being selfish to want restrictions across board than one set of people completely locked away for god knows how long ?

YANBU at all. Sadly, some people are selfish and don't believe that they should be inconvenienced at all to protect the lives of others.

I find that statement disgusting and selfish anyone can become vulnerable at any given time also people need to have some consideration for there elderly relatives if i have to stop mixing to be able to see and help my nan it will be just that

Some people are plain dozy.

(And they like to show themselves up on social media.)

I expect that person would want hospital treatment in the event of an accident. They haven't thought it through.

I'm not sure I'd consider it the mark of a decent human being to tell vulnerable/disabled people they need to accept dying unnecessarily so that other people can have fun. That's sick and twisted.

This virus has certainly shone a torch on the utterly selfish among us.

I’m not vulnerable but I really want twats who post bullshit on social media to suffer. On principle.

I find it very strange people think they deserve a holiday etc so screw Covid they're going. They'll survive without a holiday. Other people might die though if they bring it back.
How it so important you can go abroad or to the pub etc?? The only thing I do get is keeping people in jobs that is the difficult balance.

It sounds like it was a shitty post by someone who doesn’t want their freedom curtailed so on that basis you are not being unreasonable.

However it does appear that we’re sacrificing other vulnerable people for the benefit of some. I don’t know how we reconcile that but I worry about woman who are shut at home with abusers, children who are missing out on their one meal a day, patients whose regular life saving treatment has been disrupted.

I worry about the mental health of society, the suicide rate as we approach what is going to be a difficult winter, the job losses and bankruptcies, destroyed livelihoods and lost homes.

@PegasusReturns

It sounds like it was a shitty post by someone who doesn’t want their freedom curtailed so on that basis you are not being unreasonable.

However it does appear that we’re sacrificing other vulnerable people for the benefit of some. I don’t know how we reconcile that but I worry about woman who are shut at home with abusers, children who are missing out on their one meal a day, patients whose regular life saving treatment has been disrupted.

I worry about the mental health of society, the suicide rate as we approach what is going to be a difficult winter, the job losses and bankruptcies, destroyed livelihoods and lost homes.

Yes. All of this. I don't know how to reconcile it either, every option seems to lead to utterly unfair horrible suffering for some :(

it does appear that we’re sacrificing other vulnerable people for the benefit of some. I don’t know how we reconcile that but I worry about woman who are shut at home with abusers, children who are missing out on their one meal a day, patients whose regular life saving treatment has been disrupted

This. Even for the over 85s, the death rate is 15%. That still means 85% survive. What are the cancer survival rates for those who don't get treatment expeditiously?

@cologne4711 the issue is though that it is those who need treatment that will be effected if a second wave hits.
Treatment and hospitals are back and running ( we were one of those who’s treatment was diff during the original outbreak ) if hospitals get overwhelmed again then it will be those very same people who could suffer due to not enough medical care. Hope that makes sense.

” it does appear that we’re sacrificing other vulnerable people for the benefit of some. I don’t know how we reconcile that but I worry about woman who are shut at home with abusers, children who are missing out on their one meal a day, patients whose regular life saving treatment has been disrupted.”

I do worry very much but if Covid patients overwhelm the NHS, there will also be serious disruptions to non Covid medical care. Can’t win.

Such a selfish mindset, if we had to just wear a mask, keep our distance and have a few lockdowns whilst waiting for a vaccine, in order to save people's lives, then yes we should! It's those that can't see the point in that, that are selfish

I can't understand the logic of delaying treatments and operations on people who may well die from their illness or condition to protect vulnerable people who might (not will) get covid. It's playing off one set of people against another, in some respects.

@kennelmaid it’s not about that a lot of the people would be in the same category.
The issue is if the nhs is overwhelmed like it was despite what people may believe then it would be absolutely not correct to perform surgery unless an emergency without efficient ICU beds in the hospital available.

Sorry pressed enter without finishing which means if a second wave hit it would again be those same people who are left with out surgery / treatment.

Nope but the covid obsessive couldn’t give two shits about anyone else’s suffering as long as we keep prioritising the reduction in covid cases. Fuck the suffering that lockdown brings to millions.

I think a lot of people think of vulnerable people as those in care homes, with terminal illnesses or those coming to the end of their lives. They don’t seem to realise that a huge amount of the vulnerable people are children, teenagers, young adults, parents of young children etc

Sounds like several prolific Mumsnetters tbh.
I've done nothing but hit report for about a week on all the "why should I sacrifice myself and my family for some 80 year old with dementia"
Because it's easy for them to pinpoint not wanting to protect the elderly. But just remember, when they say "an 80 year old with dementia" they mean ALL the vulnerable. The ill, the poor, the 4yr old daughter of the OP.
These people have no soul.
They'll be jumping on this thread in a minute with their sick fucker eugenics.

it is those who need treatment that will be effected if a second wave hits
Treatment and hospitals are back and running ... if hospitals get overwhelmed again then it will be those very same people who could suffer due to not enough medical care. Hope that makes sense

It might well make sense if only treatments WERE back and running, but at least around here they're most certainly not. Worse still, the backlog being created means some may not get the care they need for years, even if Covid disappeared tomorrow

It's all very well saying the situation would be even worse if Covid spreads further, but if folk are already unable to access help the point's a bit moot

Overall there may be only so long folk will tolerate this focus on Covid to the exclusion of all else, especially when the other avoidable deaths and economic disaster start to mount up

@kennelmaid

I can't understand the logic of delaying treatments and operations on people who may well die from their illness or condition to protect vulnerable people who might (not will) get covid. It's playing off one set of people against another, in some respects.

Some of my treatments have been cancelled because of the risk of having treatment that lowers my immune system and therefore, increases my risk of death/complications if I did catch covid.

More cleaning and more time in between patients which means a huge reduction in outpatient appointments.

Restrictions across the board. Who are we going to pick on next? Lock away the ugly
People cos I don’t want to stand next to them on the q??? Lock away the smelly people cos I can smell them through my mask? Lock away the ones with crooked teeth cos I don’t want masks but I don’t want to look at them? Lock away all the people I know cos I don’t want to talk to them really? Where would it stop??! Anti maskers can all go on a floating island together and stay there. Probably find that Covid would soon just disappear.........

The extremely vulnerable people are, in my experience and understandably, being much more cautious than the average person. So I'm not sure what's wrong with saying that they should follow a set of recommended restrictions (which most of them are probably doing anyway) and allowing a little more freedom for those of us who aren't concerned about catching the virus. I get that it may seem unfair, but if you're going to be very restricted anyway does it really help to see others in the same boat?

OP, please understand that I have loads of sympathy for you and your child - it's an awful position to be in. It's just that I think, unfortunately, you'll be in an awful situation anyway, no matter what the rest of us do.

I do wear a mask btw - I'm happy to take reasonable steps to prevent the spread. But I am against a second lockdown.

@ComicePear I wish that is the case
But my child is back at school so does rely on others to do their part as well as the shielders who are back at work.
If we can all make some sacrifices then they might not end up back locked inside.

I understand your difficult position, but another full lockdown would be detrimental to my own family, and my family is more important to me than strangers. That's human nature.

I'm happy to wear a mask, social distance from others, even happy to forfeit going into other people's houses but I will not support a full lockdown with closures of schools and businesses. I will lose my job if that happens and I do not want to make that sacrifice.