Is it time we learned to live with Covid? BBC article today

[PennyDreadfuI]

From the BBC

I'm beginning to think that it might be (and I'm higher risk). It's here to stay, after all, and lockdowns every few months cannot go on indefinitely. All the money spent on lockdown measures could perhaps be ploughed into the NHS to pay for staff/hospitals to provide care for those who need it when they become ill (and to ease the backlog the last lockdown created).

Risk of much shortened life expectancy due to depleted T cells

To be honest the way I feel now a shortened life expectancy wouldn’t be a bad thing (for me) to bring an end to this miserable type of existence. Who wants to live a long life like this?

And in terms of learning to live with it as in removing restrictions yes we will eventually but not yet.

This is the thing blobby.

It depends on your personality/ situation.

DH is a homebod. We have a nice house with a garden. He could go on like this indefinitely.

I think a lot of people are happy.

The ones with shit housing/ DV/ young people/ people who are outgoing, not so much.

And when I say outgoing it's not a minor thing. It's like a slow death. People in my work who were ok are starting to fail. My mate at work an early 20s bloke. Lovely guy. I can see him declining. My friends who live alone. Finding it hard. It's been 6 months. People will start to fold. Just say. I'm handing in my cards. Just a fact. Not trying to be emotive.

We are social animals. Even the ones in good circs are struggling if that is what they're like.

When it starts to get to game over and fold for more people there will be 2 ways I suppose. Already people are getting less ok with it. Police massive clampdown/ enforced curfew or they give up.

We can't go on like this. It's totally unnatural to us as a species and it's been 6 months. People's resources/ resilience is starting to run low.

This seems to be happening across Europe.

Dawned on me how miserable this all is. Kids go back to school. It's a start, You hope things will get better. Not surprisingly rates increase. You think , they can't last till October 1/2 Term? Will there be a 2nd shutdown. Then it's groups of 6. Now possibly closing pubs.

It just gets you down.

3 covid alerts at our school. Whole year groups out.

There is no way they can educate under those circs.

I'm drunk and listening to Kate Bush.

I mean what's the fucking point? It's been 6 months. I am happy for those who are happy with it. Like DH. My parents. 95% of my work.

But what's the fucking point? I am near to folding. Again. Only so long I can keep at this.

Oh. Siouxie Sioux now. They're all in bed. I'm dancing on my own.

No. Not sustainable. For those who need... People. Dancing. That stuff.

It’s been 6 months!!! Most medical professionals think that a vaccine is likely soon and people are ready to throw in the towel, sacrifice the weak (and others who will be caught up in hospitals being overwhelmed) and give up because they’ve had to stay home a lot for half a year and educate their own children? Thank goodness it’s not us in WW2 now, waving the white flag after 6 months. I’ve never been so ashamed to be British. People today are pathetic.

I don't think we should make comparisons to WW2 any more. Right now, I would be incredibly happy to be taken over by Germany.

Worriedmum- I assume your children are not in exam years or at university or recent graduates. Easy to say for toddlers, absolutely devastating for teenagers and young people.

The point is

One day this will all be over

We will hug friends and family and then curse them for being under our feet
We will go gigging and then curse the mud
We will have parties and then melt down over wedding favours

And then in later days we will sit and remember , we will glorify these days, remember aunt Mabel who had to work every day in a covid ward , marvel at how our children grew into fine humans, the friends who were there for us when we on our last loo roll, how we fell on our feet as our new job is so much better than the one we lost in the crisis.

One day this will all be over

@Worriedmum999

It’s been 6 months!!! Most medical professionals think that a vaccine is likely soon and people are ready to throw in the towel, sacrifice the weak (and others who will be caught up in hospitals being overwhelmed) and give up because they’ve had to stay home a lot for half a year and educate their own children? Thank goodness it’s not us in WW2 now, waving the white flag after 6 months. I’ve never been so ashamed to be British. People today are pathetic.

I think this misunderstands the point. Forget a vaccine for the moment. The options are Option 1) Have tighter restrictions on our lives and suffer less infections and deaths but we would have to keep this up indefinitely because the virus isn't going anywhere.

Option 2) Accept a higher level of risk/infection but less restrictions on our lives. And then over time natural immunity levels might slow the spread.

When people say "but we're in a pandemic!" or "it's only 6 months!" I feel what isnt being addressed is the fact that the very actions we are taking, are extending the length of this. It could end up being a 10 year pandemic if we lock down every time cases get to 4000 a day because we're not resolving the problem.

Now back to the vaccine. Of course this could help and provide an end point. But whilst I'm confident there will be a working vaccine in the next 12 months, I'm not sure it will be a solution due to the numbers of people unwilling to take it. Vaccines are only useful if the majority of people get vaccinated, specifically the younger healthier people to protect the older people for whom vaccines don't work. And I'm sceptical whether people will be lining up to vaccinate their kids against something that doesn't affect them and with what some think is a "rushed through" vaccine.

So this could be a long term problem for the country which needs a long term solution. Not politicians introducing 6 person rules one week then overriding them the following week before even testing if they were effective. Where is the science in that?

I agree that we are going to have a problem persuading people to vaccinate, which I hadn’t considered until recently.

DH is hospital consultant, he worked in ITU throughout the earlier stages of the pandemic. He won’t have the vaccine. Friend who works in pharma also reluctant.

I’m afraid this is living with it

It’s hard work but a balance between economic and health care not being overwhelmed

I suspect that we will get more effective treatment as well as vaccine

Short term hard core. antivaxers May find s9me activities curtailed, thinking international travel but possibly also crowded events

Long term I think some things like hand hygiene and not being a cold martyr ( spreading them around as you bravely battle on ) will become habit and so less exhausting

Wouldn’t it make sense to judge the feeling of the public on this issue.

@Beetlejuicer

Wouldn’t it make sense to judge the feeling of the public on this issue.

Yes it would, and at regular intervals. I’ve followed the rules so far, not gone wild over summer and will continue following them for the next few months to see if there’s a vaccine this year. I will not be following them next year, vaccine or no vaccine. I’m sure there will be increasing numbers of people thinking like this, soon there will be more people not filling the rules than are and actually the public will have chosen for themselves!

We didn't see a huge surge in numbers after the throngs of people crowding beaches in the summer. It's only since people are being encouraged back to work/school. Is this because during the summer if people felt a bit unwell (for most people it's a mild illness) they carried on but now when faced with work they get tested? Or their work demands they get tested?

Prior to this masses of cases would have been undetected because people weren't tested - they weren't ill enough to need medical treatment. If we had tested back then, and had the full numbers of cases from then, I suspect numbers of infections would be shown as falling now. They're increasing because everyone with a cough gets a test.

I’ve been thinking the same thing @Mummabeary.

@midgebabe, it’s true, one day this will all be over. But the economic scaring and educational scarring will affect certain people all their lives. Economists and social scientists have shown that people who graduate in recessions earn less as a cohort their whole lives. Outlook for catching kids up, especially, underprivileged kids is also poor.

Prior to this masses of cases would have been undetected because people weren't tested - they weren't ill enough to need medical treatment. If we had tested back then, and had the full numbers of cases from then, I suspect numbers of infections would be shown as falling now. They're increasing because everyone with a cough gets a test

I think this may be a significant part of the rise in case numbers but not the whole story. Cases were rising before the schools went back and there was a big push to work from offices. As you say, a lot of people wouldn’t have tested in situations they now have to to be able to attend school/work.

Hospital admissions, which have also risen, are probably the best indicator of actual spread. I would presume that if we see case numbers levelling off then we can accept that’s just what they are with the country functioning as it is but it could go either way.

@NiceGerbil I’m not the world’s most outgoing person but I have felt myself becoming institutionalised and my world growing smaller sitting in this house for months on end or only going out for walks and runs locally. I’ve had to force myself to do other things and go other places because I was becoming too much like a hermit, it wasn’t bothering me like it should any more if that makes sense.

#nellodee
That's a disgusting comment
Please think about what you have said

Since I am if the belief that once you earn enough for the basics, extra wealth does not lead to additional happiness I am not worried about lower lifetime earning potential

And I see no ones heart bleeding for me, although I also graduated during a massive recession, when local unemployment was 25%, so I guess my lifetime earnings could have been more if I was a few years older or younger

I do think we need a bit of wealth shift minimise the amount of true poverty that recessions bring

but perhaps the most pertinent point is, with this virus in circulation it is highly likely that strong virus suppression and smallest recession will go hand in hand

If you want to minimise recession, control the virus strongly , which requires a working test trace and isolate system

I think our crap government have totally fucked up

@Worriedmum999

It’s been 6 months!!! Most medical professionals think that a vaccine is likely soon and people are ready to throw in the towel, sacrifice the weak (and others who will be caught up in hospitals being overwhelmed) and give up because they’ve had to stay home a lot for half a year and educate their own children? Thank goodness it’s not us in WW2 now, waving the white flag after 6 months. I’ve never been so ashamed to be British. People today are pathetic.

As the granddaughter of grandparents who suffered immeasurably during WW2, I find this hugely offensive. Many, many people struggled a great deal with what happened then. They didn’t just “get on with it” singing roll out the barrel. Three out of my 4 grandparents I would say knowing what we know now had PTSD including one who also suffered permanent physical disfigurement when her eyelashes and eyebrows fell out with shock during the Blitz. Before coming out with all the shite about the war at least educate yourself as to how it did affect people.

From the perspective of someone who has worked throughout (healthcare) I'm willing to comply with restrictions and lockdowns.

I really feel for everyone who has suffered, be it through losing employment, birthing alone, not seeing loved ones or declining mental health. This virus has a far reach.

Of those wanting life to return to as normal as possible, I wonder how many work in front line roles? Eg healthcare, cashiers, customer service. It's one thing for people to be willing to take the risk of a quick shopping trip for themselves, but how about the workers who are dealing with many members of the public each day?

If you're wanting everything open would you be willing to work a high contact/high risk job?

@Worriedmum999

It’s been 6 months!!! Most medical professionals think that a vaccine is likely soon and people are ready to throw in the towel, sacrifice the weak (and others who will be caught up in hospitals being overwhelmed) and give up because they’ve had to stay home a lot for half a year and educate their own children? Thank goodness it’s not us in WW2 now, waving the white flag after 6 months. I’ve never been so ashamed to be British. People today are pathetic.

I can only assume you don't have an exam year pupil to try to educate whilst working full time from home. I'm at breaking point and anybody who knows me will tell you I'm usually very positive about absolutely everything.