If they put a stop households mixing...

[musicalfrog]

What do those of us relying on grandparents for babysitting do? Could those in already restricted areas shed any light on this perhaps please? Thanks.

I’m a nurse and my husband is a teacher and we rely on a grandparent to take/collect our son to/from school on three occasions each week.

If we are told that he can longer do that then I don’t know what we’ll do.

My Manager has already told those of us with children that: “Not having childcare is not an excuse to not come into work. We expect you to make arrangements to ensure you will be on shift.”

if we are told that he can longer do that then I don’t know what we’ll do

What did you do back in April?

I don't think this lockdown will be the same as the last.

The “full lockdown” in March/April was almost easier from a childcare logistics perspective though because a lot of businesses were closed and most people wfh if they could (including teachers unless they were covering key worker provision which was a very small % of children)
A partial lockdown, where businesses, offices and schools are open, is more challenging to arrange childcare for (wraparound care is limited and ends much earlier than it used to).
Personally I know my employer will allow us to revert back to wfh if needed but not all will do so until they are told to

If there are any school closures I'll be ignoring this rule. As a single parent I need to work, plain and simple or I can't feed my child or keep a roof over his head. I can't WFH and if there's no available paid childcare I'll have no choice but to ssk family. Hopefully it won't come to that.

@Nixen - you don’t know what you’re talking about. I would guess that it’s actually hit a nerve with you because you don’t have family support. If that’s the case then that’s sad, and I hope you can become less bitter about it.

@notevenat20

if we are told that he can longer do that then I don’t know what we’ll do

What did you do back in April?

I don't think this lockdown will be the same as the last.

Back in April we were both working from home (not possible now), and DH and I split the day so one of us worked from 6am-2pm while the other one looked after and homeschooled the children and then swapped so the other worked from 2pm-10pm. It nearly killed us.

if we are told that he can longer do that then I don’t know what we’ll do

What did you do back in April?

My husband is a teacher so when schools were closed he was home to look after our children.

[quote ErinBrockovich]**@Angel2702* @OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer*
Because a formal care setting has a long list of covid secure measures they have to implement to be able to re-open.

Also the vast number of people who ignore the guidelines (in this case the mixing of households) are contributing to the spread and thus the need for tighter restrictions.[/quote]
First of all, there is no way that everyone who previously used family childcare could now access a childcare place. You talk of knowing lots of people in this position, so realistically you're vanishingly unlikely to know that they all could unless there's a drip feed coming. In the implausible event that each of them had a place they have turned down, they're unrepresentative and thus not a great example to use. There has been a significant reduction in availability of formal childcare places.

Secondly, small children don't SD. Asymptomatic infected children touching and thereby infecting other children who also don't show symptoms isn't going to be dealt with by covid secure measures in a setting. Such a setting is likely to involve many more contacts than family childcare.

And the last bit you've made up.

@Waxonwaxoff0

If there are any school closures I'll be ignoring this rule. As a single parent I need to work, plain and simple or I can't feed my child or keep a roof over his head. I can't WFH and if there's no available paid childcare I'll have no choice but to ssk family. Hopefully it won't come to that.

As a single parent you would be able to form a support bubble with anyone you want to (if you haven’t already) - and be classed as part of the same household - certainly that’s been the case in the local lockdowns so far.

@Nixen

This is a massive lesson in why people shouldn’t be relying on family to provide their routine childcare!

Why? My mum provides my childcare and loves doing it. She adores the DC and they her, and misses them when I'm not working and can collect them myself.

My grandma provided my childcare when I was little so my mum could work. We had an incredibly close relationship and I have so many wonderful memories of time spent with her.

It's good for children to be cared for by family members when possible, provided everyone involved is happy and not reluctant or being coerced into it. And this is hardly a situation anyone could've predicted!

@Nixen was evidently trolling, let's be honest.

"covid secure" is a fallacy. A few signs, hand sanitizer and movement (directional flow) restrictions with a nod to SD doesn't magically stop the virus, especially when air conditioning is blowing every day and no additional cleaning other than wiping my desk in the morning (cleaned the night before) and before I go home (used only by me, will be cleaned again)

I'm in NW and have still used GP for childcare. They aren't mixing with anyone else so are a bubble or two not one. Also if they were registered as a childminder it would be okay.

So although technically breaking the rules it's a sensible solution that poses no added risk.

Not to mention that the government have been quite clear that it's okay to skirt the rules of its more convenient for family childcare - or indeed getting a large planning deal through.

@TheGreatWave

"covid secure" is a fallacy. A few signs, hand sanitizer and movement (directional flow) restrictions with a nod to SD doesn't magically stop the virus, especially when air conditioning is blowing every day and no additional cleaning other than wiping my desk in the morning (cleaned the night before) and before I go home (used only by me, will be cleaned again)

It's particularly a fallacy where little children are involved. They do not SD and cannot realistically be made to. The idea that a setting with perhaps 10 toddlers in it is rendered safer than one with just 1 child in there by cleaning and hand sanitizer is laughable.

We're currently isolating, awaiting a test result. Then I may have to ask MIL to break the rules and help as I work in finance and we have to close Q3 shortly. Then it will be a balance of my own annual leave / kids being at school and nursery.

I'm actually in London and whilst we are limited to 6 people, I don't think the grandparent issue is relevant (yet!) But that is my back up plan if the guidelines change!

@ceeveebee but that would just be one household. I have to use various different family members for childcare help as everyone works full time and they can only help on their days off, including my parents.

My point is maybe after this people should give more thought to their family planning and not have children they can’t afford?
What would all these people relying on family childcare do if that family member dropped dead? Surely most adults plan for emergencies no

Huh? That's ridiculous.
My friend's husband dropped dead a few weeks ago. Age 35. No known health conditions or illnesses.
Tragic things happen. Should they just not have had children in case something like this happens.

I think breaking the rules by having grandparents (of 60+) doing part time childcare is one of the worst ways to break them.

Unfortunately, if we want to be successful in keeping schools open, I think we have to have some ways to stop this happening.

At the moment they majority of the cases are among younger people and the death rate is low. At some point it is surely going to reach the older generation again and grandparent childcare seems like the quickest and saddest way of getting it there.

But many parents have no choice. I don't blame them for breaking the rules at all. We need strategies and arrangements put in place to provide alternatives, not just say 'sorry, can't happen'.

Some things I can think of (some more practical than others):

1. Grandparents who want to do so and are healthy could be sole childcare for their grandchildren rather than doing nursery pick ups, having one day a week etc. That takes away the risk of the grandparents catching it through nursery contacts and increases nursery places for others who used grandparents part time and can't do so full time.

2. Reciprocal childcare within nursery and school bubbles should be allowed and encouraged to limit the numbers of social contacts and allow parents to help each other.

3. Before and after school wraparound care should reopen where it is closed and should be expanded to allow all children who need it to access it while remaining in bubbles. This would require extra funding.

4. (less practical) Empty places in boarding schools (which a lot of prep schools in particular have at the moment due to younger international students not returning) could be offered fee or heavily subsidised to families where all adults have no choice but to work long hours out of the home.

5. (much less practical!) Overnight care for children aged 10 and up could possibly be provided by hotels with distanced monitoring by DBS checked staff (siblings in same room, only children 'bubbled', lots of films/games/books etc). Might be ok for occasional stays.

6. Grandparents should be exempted from local rules of non mixing households to be allowed distanced, outside-where-possible contact with their grandchildren. Without a concession like this many will decide that preserving their lives at the expense of not seeing their grandchildren isn't worth it. And the risk at 2m, particularly outside, is low. It's the childcare element that is so risky.

I'm north east and still using grandparents (50 & 55) although only 1 day a week normally. Myself, DH and my parents don't really go anywhere but the supermarket and work (only me and my dad have to go in, husband and mum work from home full time for now). We did up the number of days DD is in nursery but on her first new day her nursery worker tested positive and we all had to self isolate for 2 weeks. We still had to pay full amount for those 2 weeks too so although people may be able to afford full time nursery care, I won't be paying an unnecessary extra £600 a month when they're definitely not "safer" than using grandparents.

Problem is many GPs can't do sole care all day, or do sole care for a younger child and can cope for a couple of hours after school/nursery pickup.

Sane as last time. Work poorly, parent poorly and sacrifice our mental health.

Really difficult situation but if everyone ignores the rules that don't suit them surely this will mean the pandemic will go on and on?

@user1487194234

Really difficult situation but if everyone ignores the rules that don't suit them surely this will mean the pandemic will go on and on?

It’s not that it doesn’t ‘suit’ people. What do you suggest for people who have no other childcare alternative?

@user1487194234

Really difficult situation but if everyone ignores the rules that don't suit them surely this will mean the pandemic will go on and on?

Again though, this presumes grandparent childcare is less safe than the potential alternative. There is no reason to do so.