If they put a stop households mixing...

[musicalfrog]

What do those of us relying on grandparents for babysitting do? Could those in already restricted areas shed any light on this perhaps please? Thanks.

Just for clarity, if you aren't in a local lockdown area the guidance specially says that grandparents should try to social distance but that this might not be possible for young children. So it is allowed.

For now it is. I wouldn’t count on it lasting much longer before the same restrictions apply everywhere in England

@Nixen Bet you’re one of those toilet roll stockpilers.

@Thenneverendingstorohree the OP is asking about the scenario whereby the local lockdown restrictions are rolled out nationally, in which case the guidance you quoted would not be valid.
The vast majority of responses appear to suggest people will ignore the guidance and continue to use GP’s regardless.

The casual cruelty with which this government tells people to cut themselves off from their support networks is shocking, although not surprising.

Do what you need to do. I'm still going to see and hug my parents. In return, I am not going to shops (apart from the supermarket) and avoiding cafes and pubs. I'd much rather give those things up than my family and friends, thanks ever so much.

So basically if one of the grandparents rented a flat and lived separately to the other grandparent, one of them can then be in your household with no social distancing and can pick the kids up.

Insane 🤷🏼‍♀️

Haven't RTFT before I get shouted at. SORRY. Fishy waters, it is totally illegal to pay them. Family and extended family are expected to look after your little cherubs for nothing these days and if you get caught handing over a bar of chocolate or a bunch of flowers for their trouble both you and they could get a fine of up to 10k each.

They are making it illegal to use anything other than paid care. So its not strictly about numbers mixing. If you paid a nanny- fine. Grandparent coming over-no. Unless Granny is single. Child minder-fine. Drop kids at friends house-no. It should be the bare min number of contacts needed to go to work and school. Unless they are happy pay people full pay for being off as no childcare. If there isn’t enough childcare around and no pay unless work something’s gotta give.

@ErinBrockovich yep, I know. I was responding to the other posters saying they didn't think that you were allowed grandparent care anyway at the moment. You are.

[quote LittleRa]@HariboFrenzy Well I think for me it would be to leave slightly early to be able to collect my DD myself, as I say mine is one of the less disruptive ones (eg I would have to leave 30 mins before the end of the children’s school day to collect DD, a TA would cover those last 30 mins and dismiss the class- not ideal because I get my work done after the pupils leave and don’t usually leave until 5pm, and also means I’m not there at dismissal time to see parents etc). Contingency plans for those who have childcare issues for throughout the whole day.... no idea!![/quote]
I feel for parents with younger children though - as you say, releasing you 20ish minutes early at the end of the day is not insurmountable, but schools can't pay staff who are unable to come into work if they are having to look after their pre school or younger children...

I'm surprised that your school are able to dictate staffs' childcare arrangements though. I can see the thinking behind it but it isn't really any business of theirs what childcare arrangements you have so long as you can fulfil your contractual obligations!

I know the government can't look at every individual situation but I fail to see why grandparents who are living quiet and sensible lives are not a safer option for a small child than a nursery with numerous workers and other children. It's far fewer direct contacts and that's before factoring in that we know nothing of the families and their lives outside the nursery

We all need to break up our family units.Obviously you can switch gender roles in my ingenious solution. If you kick your husband out and he temporarily moves in with extended family, then the kids can go there as part of contact arrangements, plus you are now a single parent and can form a support bubble with another household who can then mix freely with your kids.
Alternatively you can just break the rules.
Unless you are married to a civil servant, those guys are seriously indoctrinated about following rules. Shame the government don't think the same way.

What do you think will happen if you break this supposed rule Will the police knock on the door, will the council come, will your children be taken away.

As far as I can make out there is no penalty for this.

I'm a teacher in the north east.. no wrap around care at my sons school, the nursery my youngest attends did do wrap around but now no longer mix even the local schools...

My parents live on our street and help out with drop offs and have the 2 year old one day a week.,

This is know no longer allowed... with zero notice.

It's absurd.

I expect that Cummings character will be testing his eyes again. Thst lot lost all credibility after that fiasco.

@LittleRa

I’m a north east teacher who uses grandparents to collect my DD a few days a week- at first I assumed we’d just carry on as usual as I didn’t really see what else we could do, but on Friday those of us with “informal family childcare arrangements” were told in no uncertain terms by our Head teacher that we must find alternative arrangements and as school employees and council employees we must not break lockdown rules. If we are unable to find alternative arrangements we must tell our school on Monday in order for contingency plans to be put in place.

And is this head teacher going to stand at the school gates and bar grandparents from collecting any child they may be waiting for @LittleRa

HariboFrenzy I was just thinking the same, it's a bit off for the head to dictate private arrangements for staff

I’m in local lockdown. No mixing allowed. Grandparents for many as normal at the school pick up. My kids grandparents have them 1-2 times a week and we will continue as normal. Literally no other choice.

I feel like a good chunk of the population avoided this struggle in the first lockdown thanks to furlough. We never had furlough so all our AL is gone as we were strict with the rules. Shift swaps and compressed hours, we’ve exhausted it all. If everyone relying on grandparents suddenly used “ registered” childcare they wouldn’t have the vacancy anyway. It’s a joke.

To add - I’m on the north east. Local lockdown. I don’t know anyone who was previously relying on grandparents help who have managed to make other arrangements. Just carrying on as normal. Everyone.

@justasking111

What do you think will happen if you break this supposed rule Will the police knock on the door, will the council come, will your children be taken away.

As far as I can make out there is no penalty for this.

For the greater Manchester restrictions about mixing households in private homes and gardens you could be fined between £100 and £3200 depending how many times you have been fined already. Would be surprised if police do this for grandparent childcare although I know there’s been a lot of fines for parties (including a child’S birthday party on at least one occasion)

@ceeveebee our police force and others have already indicated they cannot get involved to this degree not enough of them. Boris would have to bring in the army to augment this and there are not enough of them these days.

Or COVID Marshall’s...

And some police are enforcing - Greater Manchester police twitter feed is always lots of posts where they say they have been to private homes and issued penalties, (usually parties though not childcare).

I worked all through lockdown, had no choice as my industry was very much still going.
Worked at home as much as possible but 3 days a week child had to be cared for by grandparents. So we did break the ‘rules’ but we had no other choice. IF lockdown happens again then the same will happen child will be sent to grandparents. Furlough is not a option and neither is not working. Sadly many are in the same situation.

@Inkpaperstars

I may be missing something but if the grandparents are youngish and no vulnerable, it seems like going to them would cause a lot less risk of passing a virus between households than a childcare group? It seems that even those who are normally at nursery might be better off with family if possible, just in terms of virus spread. Am I missing something? Is it extra precautions taken by 'professionals'? Or is it just they are worried that if people can use family for childcare they will end up mixing households too much under that premise when it isn't really necessary childcare?

I think the issue is that most families don't use grandparents exclusively for childcare. So most young children (toddlers / preschool) tend to spend some days in nursery and some with DGPs, or some days with one set of DGPs and some with the other set. DGPs might be looking after one set of DGC on one day and another a different day. For school age children who use GPS for wraparound care, they've been with 30+ kids in school all day and probably mix with more outside of school (sports / clubs etc.). Therefore that's a lot of mixing with other people before spending time with DGPs, who are often age 60+ and therefore more vulnerable.

I would ignore to be honest. I’m not lucky enough to have grandparents who help but was on my knees last lockdown.

My mum is elderly - but well - and has said - literally - that Nicola Sturgeon can go fuck herself if she thinks she is stopping her seeing her grandchildren again. At her age, time is precious and she already wasted months of it earlier this year.

My point is maybe after this people should give more thought to their family planning and not have children they can’t afford?

What would all these people relying on family childcare do if that family member dropped dead? Surely most adults plan for emergencies no?

@Nixen all over the world, for thousands of years, families have helped each other out with childcare, because it's what people do and they do it with love. This pandemic and the govt response to it has meant we are being asked to behave in ways which go against our most basic instincts by staying apart from the people we love. Have some compassion.