It's just an overreaction.

[madcow88]

Now don't get me wrong I followed the rules to the letter and still am doing as I don't want to break the law.

However I think it's all a massive overreaction and I don't want to sit by and allow my children's generation to be destroyed.

Their education is totally fucked, they will not get to have the same social experiences as we did as young people.

Why is everyone happily sitting by and allowing our government to restrict our lives over a virus that kills 0.01% of people. Whilst 1000s of people are dying every day due to the lack of treatment and social interactions.

I really just do not feel comfortable with all the laws on our freedom being changed so dramatically over a virus if truth be told is not as deadly as they would like us to be believed.

Don't get me wrong I have sympathy for those people who lost their lives and for the people who will lose their lives in the future but no more than for the people who die of flu and other viruses each year.

"For those who would like to look at where I am getting my information have a read of this:
drmalcolmkendrick.org/category/covid-19/

"and also look at Carl Heneghan, Sunetra Gupta and Karol Sakora as a starting point. They are acknowledged experts in their respective fields who don't happen to agree with the current approach to Covid."

Kendrick is a GP (not an infectious disease expert) who was a speaker at the "Pandemic hoax" protest in Edinburgh. He has recently said that the pandemic is over.

Sakora is an oncologist who said that it would all be over by June, then when it wasn't said in June that it would all be over by September. Just waiting for him to appear again to tell us it will all be over by Christmas. He also tweeted in March that there would be less than 7000 deaths in the UK. He blocks anyone on twitter who doesn't agree with him and even people who have never interacted with him.

Gupta is very far from the consensus view and her views have been criticized by many infectious disease experts.

Carl Heneghan has slightly tarnished the good name of the Oxford Centre for evidence based medicine by amplifying pseudoscience by Ivor Cummins.

If that's who you are getting your information from, then you need to broaden your sources. Only one of the 4 people you mention has a background in infectious diseases/ epidemiology/ virology.

excellent - fully agree with the OP. Let's have excessive deaths like we did in March as we locked down too late and tell all NHS workers - too bad just manage it when the hospitals are overrun and continue with cancer treatment so that the cancer patients can also catch covid while there. Brilliant solution op - glad you are not a policy maker. Selfish people like you are the reason why we are having a second wave.

I actually despair sometimes. 🙄

There are some silly comments on here

The nhs wasn’t overwhelmed, the nightingales were not used, err no that’s because we locked down so the nhs didn’t become overwhelmed, remember the scenes in Italy and Spain?

The op suggests we crack on as before and people can choose to keep themself safe if they wish, except they can’t can they, because there was no SD, face coverings, Covid secure workplaces etc. It’s hard enough sometimes going out now with people who don’t believe rules apply to them, dont care if they pass it on, what’s it going to be like if everyone just acts as if it’s not here?

Worse than now that is for sure, no knowledge of where cases are, no way of containing it, the nhs will be overwhelmed, further treatments for other things will be stopped again and so on

I do agree there should be Covid and non Covid hospitals to allow the nhs to get back to treating all people

As to the rest I don’t want people to catch it so am happy to comply with whatever rules there are, that way I wont have the potential deaths of people, or the poor health of those with long Covid on my conscious because I did everything I could to make sure everyone around me is safe

The nightingale hospital in Birmingham is going to open by the way. I think they were built in anticipation of a winter second wave at a time when NHS services are struggling at the best of times.

In the news today it's reported that medical tents are once again erected on the streets of Madrid.

NHS staff are voicing concerns.

I think the above says more than the cod armchair epidemiologists spouting bollocks on the internet.

Agree.

It's a really hard balance. I guess one thing is that the immediate deaths are very visible but the untold harm to a generation is more difficult to see immediately.

I think it's all a massive overreaction

At times of stress and crisis, denial is a common but long-term unhelpful psychological response.

edition.cnn.com/2020/08/16/health/pandemic-covid-19-denial-mental-health-wellness/index.html

Brazil doesn't seem to be doing so well though, while in New Zealand life and schooling is much more normal. To me that looks like stricter measures are better long term than no measures.

We should get the NHS up and running for all treatments and appointments to run as they did pre-Covid

That isn’t giving nhs staff the option you want for yourself. Who will care for all the new sufferers? there will be no clinical staff left alive if you are given the freedom to chose to keep ourselves safe in the same way we do with flu and other viruses Who will do treatments and appointments then?

NHS staff are already scared about the second wave, and that’s with restrictions.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4026357-nhsers-how-are-we-doing-feeling-calm-before-the-storm

That you think you know better than ALL the world leaders, health experts and scientists begs belief.

Yes we're stuffed. Because people can't just social distance and do with less social contact.

It's called reducing the likelihood.

The idea that if covid was just running through the population that nhs services could run as normal is ridiculous. There would be huge staff shortages due to sickness which would leave clinics unsafe to open, a&e crippled by people with breathing difficulties, wards full of people with covid infecting people without. I certainly wouldn't want to be having chemo or a cancer surgery in those circumstances, it would put people who are already vulnerable with reduced immunity at huge risk.

@Tangledyarn Its worrying that this even needs to spelt out to people Surely it should be obvious

I think you should read this thread OP

NHSers - how are we doing / feeling? Calm before the storm? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4026357-nhsers-how-are-we-doing-feeling-calm-before-the-storm

Totally agree OP. The effect on education and the young is criminal, quite frankly. And don't get me started on the erosion of our civil liberties. Looking at the stats, we have just got to get on with things whilst allowing the vulnerable to shield (if they wish).

Wait - why are we now immune to the scenes we saw in Italy and China? People want everything back to normal, what makes them think we won’t get the same thing?

It has not even been proven that you cannot get Covid twice.

@gypsywater I know, every other thread seems to be people talking about the NHS 'prioritising' bloody covid, that's really not what's happening, it's just so frustrating, be the first to complain when they caught covid at their routine hospital appt too no doubt.

@janeyloves what's the plan for hospitals?

@Tangledyarn
I think many people are sadly literally incapable of critical thinking and are highly ignorant

I agree with the OP. If we’re not going to do a Sweden (& their cases are heading downwards now when everybody else’s are going in the wrong direction) then I think the bill for this experiment should be picked up by those proportionally at risk. After all, save for a few outliers, that is who aim to benefit here primarily. Everybody else, especially the young are going to be picking up the tab for this for a loooooong time.

@frozendaisy

Our children will bounce back, yes they might have to do a retake year, their social experiences are stunted for a year or so, but when they are 40 it really will not matter. They will swap Covid-19 stories, there will be songs, films, comedy all inspired by lockdown.

It's our job as parents to let them know it will be ok. Retake a year, so what? Bit late to learn to drive, go university next year, I never went to prom did you?

Every now and again whole populations have to have freedoms curved, and it's worldwide, have a read of what is happening in India, so we are all watching a bit too much Netflix, it could be a lot worse.

And I get it we have had many a "crest-fallen" moment with our children, still are having them, and our parental instinct is to try and solve their sadness, but we can't.

I hope the younger generation work towards a very different, progressive, problem-solving, fairer society. With imaginative architecture that makes homes healthier environments.

This could be the reset this planet and population needs. Our freedoms will return and we will all cherish them all the more when they do.

This is the most sensible comment ive read for months

I know denial is an understandable reaction in times of crisis but it takes a special kind of total inability to see beyond your own nose to think that we can all just ‘get back to normal’ by pretending the virus isn’t a threat. Yes it’s probably not going to kill you personally, but the effects of it go beyond that.

If the health service is overwhelmed by Covid patients, we can’t have normal non-Covid services up and running. We can’t even staff Covid services well enough if that starts happening. So not only would more people die of Covid through lack of medical care, but people would start dying of other things they couldn’t get treatment for because all the ICU beds were in use, there weren’t enough staff to manage, there wasn’t enough equipment to save them.

There is no country that has been able to ‘protect the vulnerable’ by letting the virus run through everyone else. You can’t wall ‘the vulnerable’ off from society - they have family, housemates, children, they need food, they need basic services. I suppose we could all just send them off to an uninhabited island somewhere and do some air-drops from Tesco and tell ourselves we’re ‘protecting’ them?

The economy will be damaged whatever we do. If the virus is running through the community, it will damage the economy even if you personally feel happy to go out to Ikea and buy a sofa.

We KNOW all this because we have SEEN all this in other countries, and we can see it right now in other countries. Israel did “virus is gone, let’s all get back out there!” and now look at them.

You have the right to engage in whatever magical thinking gets you through this but come on, think for a second. Do you honestly believe that if there was a magic route where we protect the vulnerable and the economy and scrap all control measures that some country, somewhere, wouldn’t have found it by now? Sweden’s economy is just as fucked as ours and they didn’t ‘protect the vulnerable’ either.

“but it won’t kill ME so I don’t see why we’re bothering with all of this” in the face of everything the planet is dealing with is just selfish and stupid.

They could use the nightingale hospitals - for clinics, recuperating Covid positive patients (rather than sending them back to their Covid negative families or care homes). The govt chooses not to fund this.

Greater transmission and health workers or their families getting it causes the same thing as is happening with teachers and schools. This itself will cause disruption to clinics and surgery. You cannot compare it to ‘before Covid’.

I agree OP. As if lock downs help.... yeah in the short term, but it just delays the virus. All very well and good if we had a definite assurance that there will be a vaccine, but what if there is never a vaccine? Then what? Everyone has to live like this forever more?

It's not a popular opinion on here op, but I do agree with you. Lockdown is not a long term solution. Because the virus will still be there when lock down finishes. Which is what we are seeing now!

The government are there to make the decisions to protect the majority. Not every one, the majority. Unfortunately, this means making decisions that will inevitably involve hurting/damaging some sections of society to protect the majority. There will always be a decision to make that involves deciding who lives and who dies. Not everyone can be saved and it is ridiculous and naive to assume every single person can be saved from covid.