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Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 19

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2020 11:11

Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 19

Welcome to thread 19 of the daily updates

Resource links:

Welcome to thread 18 of the daily updates

Resource links:

Uk dashboard deaths, cases, hospitals, tests - 4 nations, English regions & LAs
Imperial UK weekly LAs, cases / 100k, table, map, hotspots
Modelling real number of infections February to date
MSAO Map of English cases
Cases Tracker England Local Government
ONS MSAO Map English deaths
CovidMessenger live update by council district in England
Scot gov Daily data
Scotland TravellingTabby LAs, care homes, hospitals, tests, t&t
PH Wales LAs, tests, ONS deaths
NI Dashboard
Zoe Uk data
UK govt pressers Slides & data
ICNRC Intensive Care National Audit & Research reports
NHS t&t England & UK testing Weekly stats
R estimates UK & English regions
PHE Surveillance report infections & watchlists each Thursday
ONS England infection surveillance report each Friday
Datasets for ONS surveillance reports
ONS Roundup deaths, infections & economic reports
ECDC rolling 14-day incidence EEA & UK
Worldometer UK page
Our World in Data test positivity etc, DIY graphs
FT DIY graphs compare deaths, cases, raw / million pop
Covidly.com world summary & graphs
Alama Personal COVID risk assessment

Our STUDIES Corner

We welcome factual, data driven, and civil discussions from all contributors 📈 📉 📊 👍

OP posts:
Thread gallery
53
Qasd · 21/09/2020 09:33

So on the short sharp lockdown really is there any evidence globally such a strategy works?

I cannot think off the top of my head any country that effectively used a two week lockdown even when they locked down early - New Zealand being the obvious example lockdown super early but still needed seven weeks for it to work.

Germany’s initial lockdown was also earlier and shorter (but not only two weeks!) it just seems to fly in the face of the evidence that we have that cases take a short time to go up and a long time to come down and realistically it’s two weeks after implementing a measure before we see an impact due to the time infection takes to manifest.

MRex · 21/09/2020 09:34

I wonder if anything will be said about the flu vaccine as well, to encourage vulnerable groups to take it up.

A new link for the next thread @BigChocFrenzy, I've just checked the flu report (zero confirmed cases, loads of rhinoviruses plus of course SARS-COV2) and I guess we will want to keep an eye on flu info too: www.gov.uk/government/statistics/weekly-national-flu-reports-2019-to-2020-season.

Also, I don't think you added the footfall maps as you were creating the new thread in a rush, sorry if I missed it:
www.google.com/covid19/mobility/.

IloveJKRowling · 21/09/2020 09:42

On the flu vaccine - my littlest daughter has been called to the surgery and had it already, I'm booked privately for Oct 5th (the earliest appointment) but DD1s school has it booked in for December. This seems hugely late to be vaccinating school children. Am I missing something?

I am wondering how coronavirus plus flu season will play out. I've seen a few papers about co-infections but it seemed from them it was rare (these were all from China).

PrayingandHoping · 21/09/2020 09:53

@IloveJKRowling gosh that does seem late. Can u find out why?

Myself and my 11month old were booked in this week with gp but had to move it to next week as she is having her first RSV vaccine on Friday so needs to be spaced out. Our gp surgery seems to have started early this year.... don't usually do it until October

sirfredfredgeorge · 21/09/2020 09:59

I've just checked the flu report (zero confirmed cases, loads of rhinoviruses plus of course SARS-COV2) and I guess we will want to keep an eye on flu info too

Quite awhile before the flu comes along, the rhinoviruses dominate this time of year, and possibly even compete the flu away. Flu doesn't normally start until November for influenza A and Feb for influenza B. www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-37481-y (and others)

TheSunIsStillShining · 21/09/2020 10:03

@BigChocFrenzy
Without wanting to derail the thread I have a Germany related question.
What are the phrases used in german that are about physical distancing, needing to keep the 2 meters, not touching each other? Is it also phrased as social distancing or more toward the word/concept of physical?
Thanks!

Cornettoninja · 21/09/2020 10:07

Re: a short sharp lockdown, pure speculation but perhaps the plan is more focused on making relaxation of restrictions more focussed rather than relying on the lockdown. There are some areas that will probably benefit from a short lockdown and some that will need longer. In the interests of PR it might be felt that locking down and releasing targeted areas slower might be better received widely, reiterate the message and get control of the numbers.

NeurotrashWarrior · 21/09/2020 10:10

More regarding symptoms in children on bbc:

twitter.com/hewitson10/status/1307574279765143552?s=21

BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2020 10:10

@EducatingArti

There seems to be an increasing amount of activity on Twitter from those who feel that the whole virus is some kind of hoax to restrict individual liberty. Their arguments seem to centre around the false positives, eg there are 8 false positives for every one case. Can anyone explain clearly why this false positive argument is flawed as I'm struggling to put it all together right now.
.... The false positives matter if a population is being tested completely at random during very low infection levels However, when people are being tested for symptoms, or close contact, then false positives are a far smaller %, especially when infections are rising

This false positive argument was started by the irresponsible Julia Hartley-Brewer

  • who has an ideological agenda and an insatiable desire for publicity, so always looking to stir

She asked David Spiegelhalter the consequences of a 0.8% FPR (False Positive Rate) which had been stated by Hancock on air
and then she misused the answer for mass testing & ignoring his later post on testing with symptoms

As we've discussed before,
the false positive % has very different consequences for random mass population testing vs testing of people with symptoms or their family members

The claim that therefore the rise in infections is fake also ignores the 30% or so of false negatives

If you want to rebut the 91% false claims, then you could copy both Spiegelhalter's tweets on the topic:

David Spiegelhalter @dspiegel

Tweet below is for mass testing.

Very different if test 1000 people with symptoms
then from PHE data expect 40-50 covid, detect say 30-40.

So most positive tests are correct. The current rise is real.

David Spiegelhalter @dspiegel
Replying to @JuliaHB1

If you test 1000 people at random, latest ONS figures estimate 1 will have the virus, and let’s assume you find them.
But with an FPR of 0.8%, that’s 8/1000, and so you expect to find 8 false positives.
That’s 9 positive tests, only one of which has the virus

OP posts:
Augustbreeze · 21/09/2020 10:23

Presumably the answer to why the OP's child's school has flu vaccines scheduled for December is that the dates have been allocated by the local health authority, alongside all other schools in the area.

It will be a problem if schools end up closing/being closed, also if flu gets going any earlier than usual, or just as usual (depending on when in December the vaccinations are scheduled for).

littlestpogo · 21/09/2020 10:28

My DCs school flu vaccine has always been early December. Given it takes 2 weeks to confer immunity I always think a beginning of November date would be preferable - but yes it’s set by the LA and slightly depends where your school falls in the schedule ( although other schools getting it earlier obviously confers community benefit which in turn helps all schools)

NeurotrashWarrior · 21/09/2020 10:29

I've noticed this before and am tempted to book both ds into the GPs now.

It's always around Nov/ Dec time for some reason.

Gp has sent a message saying it can be done there. Youngest is booked in for 5th oct. Mine is 2nd at boots as I'd not heard from Gp (asthma) and wanted it asap!

sirfredfredgeorge · 21/09/2020 10:40

*Very different if test 1000 people with symptoms
then from PHE data expect 40-50 covid, detect say 30-40.

If you test 1000 people at random, latest ONS figures estimate 1 will have the virus, and let’s assume you find them*

Some fag packet maths has gone wrong here for me I'm sure, but if 50% pre/asymptomatic that means 100 times more likely to have symptoms, which means 10% of people have COVID symptoms at any one time?

OP posts:
MRex · 21/09/2020 11:11

Vallance summary: Rates are growing, hospitalizations and deaths are growing, shown to be growing more steeply in France and Spain so we can see this will happen. We risk 49000 cases per day by 13th Oct if stay on 7 day doubling, but not predicted to follow that due to restrictions that have been brought in.

MarshaBradyo · 21/09/2020 11:22

They both did very well as expected.

Clear and calm.

My hope is enough people watched it.

Frazzled2207 · 21/09/2020 11:27

Watching the briefing I didn’t think it was a particular “telling off” or “warning”, they were being fair and factual. Not entirely sure what the point was.

MRex · 21/09/2020 11:28

Whitty focused on explaining collective responsibility in a pandemic. Cases rising across most of the country and spreading to older age groups from young adults, which will lead to more deaths; only young children infections still remain low. Reminder about flu and how it kills thousands each year too. Reminder that deaths can happen from A&*E being overwhelmed as well as direct covid deaths. Vaccine probably not until Spring, but they feel positive it will come then.

MarshaBradyo · 21/09/2020 11:30

@Frazzled2207

Watching the briefing I didn’t think it was a particular “telling off” or “warning”, they were being fair and factual. Not entirely sure what the point was.
The point is in an information vacuum people circulate their own narrative.
sirfredfredgeorge · 21/09/2020 11:36

Whitty focused on explaining collective responsibility in a pandemic

I think this is a super risky strategy, 'cos there's no collective responsibility in other government policy - your right to drive and SUV to school at 30mph outweighs others right to the risk of others risks to car accidents, air pollution etc. Your right to a triple-locked pension outweighs others risks to low rates of benefits etc.

If the policy is collective responsibility, then it needs to be consistent, not just about something that is no risk.

I thought it was poor, and a waste of time and anxiety that the announcement caused in people expecting bad news.

IloveJKRowling · 21/09/2020 11:39

Reminder that deaths can happen from A&E being overwhelmed as well as direct covid deaths.*

This is such an important point and something the 'let it rip' contingent fail to ever recognise. And the fact that an overwhelmed NHS could mean anyone, however healthy, could easily die from lack of immediate medical attention if they have an accident or sudden illness- who's never been to A&E because of an accident?

I think it's almost inconceivable to people in countries such as ours to imagine not having access to healthcare when needed. I think this does needed to be pointed out more often.

MRex · 21/09/2020 11:42

Looking across media, it looks like a lot of Sage have been rolled out to speak to every channel to ensure messages are getting out clearly that it's a real virus, it will kill people, it is growing. It looks like Sage have a view that a large number of people aren't complying because they have been fed false messages. They are all suggesting measures sooner rather than later. Has there been an announcement about a political announcement later? I expect one.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2020 11:46

They gave factual information about their areas of expertise:
public health (Whitty) and Science (Vallance)

What it says on their tin

They don't do politics
or deal with the rights & wrongs of historical government economic & social policy

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2020 11:47

They estimate 70k currently infected, with 6k new cases daily

OP posts:
CoffeeandCroissant · 21/09/2020 11:54

Briefing can be watched again here for anyone who missed it.