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Original poster

So a family of 6 can't have any visitors to their home?

195 replies

covidconfusion · 10/09/2020 11:42

"From Monday 14 September, when meeting friends and family you do not live with you must not meet in a group of more than 6, indoors or outdoors"

Does this mean a family of 6 cannot have any visitors to their home?

Source: www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-meeting-with-others-safely-social-distancing/coronavirus-covid-19-meeting-with-others-safely-social-distancing

On a related note, I really think the government need to improve the clarity of their communication. I don't usually struggle with reading comprehension but I find the guidelines so hard to follow and I know I'm not the only one. Usually I would use my common sense but the guidelines do not follow common sense. If the guidelines are saying what I think they are saying, it means a family of 6 cannot have any visitors but a single person household can have 5 visitors from 5 different households? Really? You have to laugh.

OP posts:
lazylinguist · 10/09/2020 14:45

@lazylinguist
A rule of six is much easier to enforce than '2 households' as the police cannot assume what makes up a typical household and essentially have to take peoples word for it in the absence of glaring evidence.

I guess. And how many households are police going to actually manage to go into to ensure there are only 6 people in there?! I don't even see a police officer from one month to the next where I live tbh! Totally unenforceable, so changing the rules on that basis seems pretty silly.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2020 14:46

@hesaidshesaidwhat

*those risky things that are essential are allowed and those that are not are banned.*

The problem here is that the government has decided what it thinks are essential, just as they decided letting Cheltenham go ahead etc was essential. How is going to church or to the pub more essential than family getting together? It just isn't and there's a way highter risk of catching Covid. The majority of people have complied, those very people have watched and are now watching certain groups flout the rules and yet they are the ones that are being most penalised. I would like to see this played out in court actually, given a right to family life is a human right.

A right to a family life is a human right.

HOWEVER this does not necessarily mean extended family - single parents / divorced parents have exemptions based around this.

ALSO

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/human-rights-act/article-8-respect-your-private-and-family-life

Are there any restrictions to this right?

There are situations when public authorities can interfere with your right to respect for private and family life, home and correspondence.
This is only allowed where the authority can show that its action is lawful, necessary and proportionate in order to:

<span class="italic">protect national security</span>
<span class="italic">protect public safety</span>
<span class="italic">protect the economy</span>
<span class="italic">protect health or morals</span>
<span class="italic">prevent disorder or crime, or</span>
<span class="italic">protect the rights and freedoms of other people.</span>

Action is ‘proportionate’ when it is appropriate and no more than necessary to address the problem concerned.

So good luck with taking this particular grievance to court... you wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

veryvery · 10/09/2020 14:46

Students could have sort of 'musical household' parties if they all live nearby. Bit like musical chairs. Some stay in the house, some go out to another house and changeover. 3 in 3 out, 3through the door...

Not so good regarding transmission though...

StatisticalSense · 10/09/2020 14:49

@hesaidshesaidwhat
It is more essential that everybody in the country has the opportunity for some level of social interaction including those who are living alone than it is for people with larger families to be able to see each other at the same time while others are essentially trapped at home unable to safely see anyone. Pubs provide opportunities for socialisation to those who for whatever reason don't feel comfortable with letting people into their accommodation (whether that be because they are in a studio flat, are no longer able to maintain their house to a level they are comfortable with, or any other reason). Pubs also provide a place for people to escape to if there is something going on at home that they wish to avoid, and provide hot meals to many people who are no longer able to cook for themselves but are too embarrassed to ask for help (including a sizable number of wouldn't be able to order off apps and who wouldn't eat the food served in most takeaways as it isn't what they are used to).

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2020 14:50

@Keepawatch

Think this has definitely been done before the first years all return to campus over the next couple of weeks, without a doubt. My DD is off to uni soon and there are 14 in her flat. If the original ‘two households’ rule applied then there could be potentially 28 people socialising, whereas now they won’t be allowed anyone else to visit if they’re all in. It makes sense with her situation.
Absoluetely.

It makes good sense.

And tbh, I suspect this is the type of scenario where it WILL be most heavily policed with the threat of losing your place at university also being a real one.

StatisticalSense · 10/09/2020 14:51

@lazylinguist
Student households can often be up to 10-12 people so if it was simply 2 households the police would have next to no power in breaking up groups of less than 25-30 (especially considering it is widely accepted that students ID's will list their permanent family home rather than term-time address and therefore the addresses on ID's shouldn't be used to determine where a student is living).

StatisticalSense · 10/09/2020 14:54

Also when it comes to students there will inevitably be flats in which the occupants don't gel and the students in such flats will reasonably need opportunities to socialise with others who are not in their own flat. While most universities will try and move students in such a situation around it isn't always possible and usually takes at least several weeks by which time a student who has felt unable to leave their bedroom and hasn't spoken to anyone may well be suffering from quite severe mental health issues.

Thelittleweasel · 10/09/2020 14:54

@whatswithtodaytoday

Congratulations and well said. It's not up to people to say "oh we have not got it" or make up rules

Flowers
CurlyStrawsRock · 10/09/2020 14:57

My friends situation. 2 parents, 5 children. 2 eldest at university, 3 at home. Are the 2 eldest unable to stay at their home at the same time, since officially they aren't in the household anymore?

Of course not, common sense people. I don't know why I'm even reading this thread but here I am. Should have stopped when a PP said they were basically still hiding away.....palm meet head.

Jenasaurus · 10/09/2020 14:58

If its still like this at christmas we will draw lots to see which member of the family cant come over. We are a family of 7 in total. I would volunteer but as I am cooking they may not want that.

sqirrelfriends · 10/09/2020 15:00

@Tootletum

But don't worry, you can still go to soft play... As long as you don't mix with more than five other adults you know (the ones you don't know and the 200 snotty kids are no risk at all).
Omg, this.

Such a lack of common sense when they made this decision.

unchienandalusia · 10/09/2020 15:00

@picklemewalnuts bloody spot on. It worries me that people can't see past their own individual circumstances. It's the least confusing message there's been but people are still bleating about not understanding it.

MrsExpo · 10/09/2020 15:00

No .... there are exceptions for larger households.

StatisticalSense · 10/09/2020 15:03

@MrsExpo
Only for those within the household.

veryvery · 10/09/2020 15:04

If its still like this at christmas we will draw lots to see which member of the family cant come over. We are a family of 7 in total. I would volunteer but as I am cooking they may not want that.

@Jenasaurus you just need to sit at the head of the table, like the queen. Elect to 'servants' to serve the food then people can book appointments to see you.

roundandsideways · 10/09/2020 15:07

So while my 5 kids are at school, I can have five guests?

samG76 · 10/09/2020 15:07

Brilliant - we're a a family of 6 - the kids want a playdate so we farm one of them out to a family and we have someone over ourselves. Woe betide if the mum is a little late picking up. Perhaps we will split the fine 50/50.

As for meeting in parks, how will the police know whether people know each other, as they will be distancing in any event.

The real issue is that this could go on for ever. If the stats go down then the govt says the lockdown is working and we can't lift it. Or the stats go up in which case clearly we can't lift it because of the pandemic. So we are screwed either way.

Jenasaurus · 10/09/2020 15:08

@veryvery

If its still like this at christmas we will draw lots to see which member of the family cant come over. We are a family of 7 in total. I would volunteer but as I am cooking they may not want that.

@Jenasaurus you just need to sit at the head of the table, like the queen. Elect to 'servants' to serve the food then people can book appointments to see you.

Oh I like that idea veryvery

reminds me of a friend whose DM was a terrifying lady and when we visited her we would be summoned to see her in her -throne- chair to say hello, we were about 8 and woe betide us if we didnt see her first and went straight up to her DDs room or in the garden to play. I can now be that person :)

TinySleepThief · 10/09/2020 15:08

@CurlyStrawsRock

My friends situation. 2 parents, 5 children. 2 eldest at university, 3 at home. Are the 2 eldest unable to stay at their home at the same time, since officially they aren't in the household anymore?

Of course not, common sense people. I don't know why I'm even reading this thread but here I am. Should have stopped when a PP said they were basically still hiding away.....palm meet head.

I would think they can come home otherwise what the fuck are they meant to do in the holidays? Whrn I was at uni they specified all first years living on campus had to go home over Christmas so where else are they meant to go if not back home?
022828MAN · 10/09/2020 15:08

You've got a 0.07% chance of dying from covid. Just go out and live as normal. See whoever you want as long as they are happy to do the same. Life is too short.

veryvery · 10/09/2020 15:08

round, yes. And if your kids go to someone's for dinner you can have someone over for dinner.

user1471588124 · 10/09/2020 15:08

[quote StatisticalSense]@lazylinguist
A rule of six is much easier to enforce than '2 households' as the police cannot assume what makes up a typical household and essentially have to take peoples word for it in the absence of glaring evidence.[/quote]
My household is 8 youngish adults. How can we prove to the police we all live together?

sqirrelfriends · 10/09/2020 15:09

@022828MAN

You've got a 0.07% chance of dying from covid. Just go out and live as normal. See whoever you want as long as they are happy to do the same. Life is too short.
Could be even shorter if you die from COVID.
veryvery · 10/09/2020 15:09

@Jenasaurus Grin

022828MAN · 10/09/2020 15:11

sqirrelfriends

"Could be even shorter if you die from COVID."

Yeah, as I say - there's a 99% chance you won't. If you don't want to take those odds, don't. I'll take my chances.

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