'People have relaxed too much' .... have they?

[SqidgeBum]

This evening Deputy Chief medic Van Tam said the rise in cases were because 'people have relaxed too much' and we all need to take things more seriously. This has made me a bit angry to be honest. I am of the camp who doesnt understand how the shops, restaurants, and pubs can open and the government actively encourage us all to get out and spend, the schools open and we are told its safe, and people are being encouraged to go back on tubes and buses to offices, but its then somehow OUR fault when cases rise.

Was this not inevitable? Did the government not know this would happen as a result of opening things up? I feel pretty peeved that the public are being made out to be the bad guys when we are acting on government advice.

What do people think? Have people become too lax?

@Notfeelinggreattoday and how often are these guidelines reminded to people? We've all heard the gov adverts on the radio etc about handwashing and early days stay home save lives even posters up saying it, i personally haven't heard or seen anything that reminds people those guidelines are still in place

@halcyondays

Perhaps they should tell us how many of the outbreaks are caused by people at parties etc and how many by people at work, school etc? How many at pubs/restaurants which we were strongly encouraged to visit? They must know this given that we allegedly have a world beating track and trace system.

I don't know if they gave numbers but when they announced the local lockdowns they said ethat track and trace was clearly showing that get together a in private homes was the cause of the rise in cases, rather than restaurants or pubs.

@EDSGFC most countries are seeing rises again even Nz who practically eradicated it have a couple cases appearing here and there and not sure why last i read.
You cant keep businesses shut forever the economy will collapse , people need to work and eat and blended learning isn't possible for all , what of you have 3 kids sharing a pc and a bedroom how do they all access a zoom class at the same time etc
When we had 2 dc home learning and husband wfh our internet struggled at times when they were all on together , there really is no easy answers to all this

@Concerned7777 its in papers most days you would have to live under a rock to not see anything
Signs up everywhere you go etc

@Concerned7777 there are still adverts on tv as well and by us signs on the road etc - stay alert
Plus its in newspapers everyday that numbers are increasing etc

@Notfeelinggreattoday can't remember the last time I read a paper and I've not once seen any poster that reminds of the household mixing guidelines.

Pubs, shops and even schools can work if people are socially distancing and being hygienic. The problem is less about opening up but about people being so lax.

Yes, but relying on children (schools) and people in pubs (i.e. a lot of drunk people) to socially distance is not going to work. Especially as neither setting has masks.

How convenient that the virus is mostly spreading in private homes were no money is being made.

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02058-1
If it's airborne social distancing won't help. I'm not sure facemasks are that effective either.
I think the government were very irresponsible opening restaurants and now they are trying to blame the public for the spread. Its ridiculous. There is no way a restaurant with aircon and 100 people from mixed houses is a lesser risk than families indoors.
And now they want is all in our sealed, centrally heated offices for winter. Erm...

@Concerned7777 well nothing has changed re: households for a while unless your in an area where extra restrictions are in place , so why would you need reminding , i mean when you learn to drive and no what a stop sign is you don't need reminding but would need telling if they changed the sign for example
It wouldn't hurt now to have a weekly briefing as cases are on the rise and to hear from scientists what all this means going forward , any new advances etc

I haven't seen any news stories giving figures for "teenagers commiting suicide". @Ellsbells12. Could you link? Have there been many? I mean, teenagers who were not already vulnerable wrt mental health issues prior to Covid?

@QuentinWinters in your 2 cases if its airborne both would be a risk
What would you propose that all restaurants closed down for years , what about taxes these bring in , the jobs etc , the economy has to e balanced alongside its not wither or as without an economy we wouldn't have nhs , furlough payments etc etc
I can't see how people cant see this , and there are not many restaurants open with 100 people most have reduced numbers etc

Now this confuses me! Since when could 30 people meet in a house?? no wonder people have been mixing with reporting like that

[quote Notfeelinggreattoday]@EDSGFC most countries are seeing rises again even Nz who practically eradicated it have a couple cases appearing here and there and not sure why last i read.
You cant keep businesses shut forever the economy will collapse , people need to work and eat and blended learning isn't possible for all , what of you have 3 kids sharing a pc and a bedroom how do they all access a zoom class at the same time etc
When we had 2 dc home learning and husband wfh our internet struggled at times when they were all on together , there really is no easy answers to all this
[/quote]
Of course other countries are seeing a rise but how serious that gets and the impact that it has on the economy is determined by the collective actions of the population.

And yes, we do need to keep the economy going, we need to educate children and maintain the health service and that's why it's so important to keep cases as low as possible whilst maintaining the above.

Encouraging whole class parties, play dates, raves, dinner parties with ten couples and so on isn't helping to maintain these, it's putting them at risk.

As for blended learning - it's the only way of keeping certainly secondary schools open. Government have had six months to develop a really good online provision, including supporting students who need resources. Instead they've stuck their fingers in their ears and their heads in the sand and insisted schools go back as usual. Now, only a week in and we are seeing multiple bubbles burst and many schools close. So now students have nothing and this pattern will be repeated continuosly. It's better to have reliable, good alternatives running rather than this in, out,in, out pattern.

@TheSeedsOfADream

I haven't seen any news stories giving figures for "teenagers commiting suicide". *@Ellsbells12*. Could you link? Have there been many? I mean, teenagers who were not already vulnerable wrt mental health issues prior to Covid?

Suicides don’t tend to hit the news that often.

Inquests take months anyway - how long they are taking at the moment who knows “because Covid”

It’s very unlikely any spike in those figures since March and through the summer will be available for months.

I haven’t seen any actual proof that infection levels are any higher than they have been previously? Do you have a link?

I haven't said they are.
I was wondering about pp posts about an increase in teen suicides.

The government has fucked up and opened up too quickly. However they don’t want to close anything back down (because of misguided ideas about minimising harm to the economy I.e. Tory donors’ pockets) so they are adopting a strategy of trying to get us to all social distance more again.

I live in an area which largely adheres to the restrictions. In fact, neighbours, friends are still only meeting outside. I've only been in my elderly Mum's porch twice when it's raining and hard to sort her paperwork. No one in my main group of friends has been inside parents houses, except one who isolated for two weeks before. This is paying off around here, we went for over a month with no cases and now we're getting 3-4 cases a week. Younger ones are going out, but many are meeting in groups in parks, my 19 year old DD was sat in the park with two friends until 10.30 last night rather than inside somewhere.

However, I've read many times on here people don't intend to follow guidelines. If other areas are taking full advantage of eased restrictions and then others just don't care, surely numbers are going to be higher in those areas.

How convenient that the virus is mostly spreading in private homes were no money is being made

Yep, strange that.

@annabel85

Pubs, shops and even schools can work if people are socially distancing and being hygienic. The problem is less about opening up but about people being so lax.

Yes, but relying on children (schools) and people in pubs (i.e. a lot of drunk people) to socially distance is not going to work. Especially as neither setting has masks.

Plus, private gatherings on gardens can also work fine if SD and hygiene are maintained, but it was still fine to ban millions of us from having them whilst continuing to encourage us into pubs and restaurants.

If it's airborne social distancing won't help. I'm not sure facemasks are that effective either.

There is now significant evidence that Covid is spread most easily indoors where people are mixing closely for a prolonged period. Just because it might be airborne doesn’t mean social distancing doesn’t help. It’s a bit like saying that just because it’s possible to die wearing a seat belt that seat belts don’t help at all.

i dont think witty and van tam ever agreed to opening everythng back up they were overruled and now when they say its getting worse people are wondering why

our government has let us down over all this too many mixed messages and not strong enough enforcment-who exactly are they fining the police cant do anything unless its a mass illegal public gathering

@Egghead68

The government has fucked up and opened up too quickly. However they don’t want to close anything back down (because of misguided ideas about minimising harm to the economy I.e. Tory donors’ pockets) so they are adopting a strategy of trying to get us to all social distance more again.

They're still shouting for everyone to go back to the office even when working effectively from home. Is it any wonder people get complacent?

Not in the slightest!

The slight rise in numbers where I am is being blamed on teens hanging about in groups.

I have not seen one person on my (rare) trips to the supermarket that is not wearing a mask, but figures are up in that area.

Either let people get on with life and try to save their jobs or shut us all up again and give us some money so we can pay the bills - stop pissing about. I, and many others are on the verge of giving up even trying to live any more.