'People have relaxed too much' .... have they?

[SqidgeBum]

This evening Deputy Chief medic Van Tam said the rise in cases were because 'people have relaxed too much' and we all need to take things more seriously. This has made me a bit angry to be honest. I am of the camp who doesnt understand how the shops, restaurants, and pubs can open and the government actively encourage us all to get out and spend, the schools open and we are told its safe, and people are being encouraged to go back on tubes and buses to offices, but its then somehow OUR fault when cases rise.

Was this not inevitable? Did the government not know this would happen as a result of opening things up? I feel pretty peeved that the public are being made out to be the bad guys when we are acting on government advice.

What do people think? Have people become too lax?

@SqidgeBum yes. I was on the public transport over the weekend. Half of all passengers do not worry about either wearing a mask or wearing it over the nose. Does this matter per se? Perhaps not. Does it show how fucking stupid inconsiderate lazy people are? Very much so.

Travel. Follow the rules. Simple.

But the "follow the rules" seems to be beyond half of UK's populations' comprehension.

So maybe they have not relaxed too much, more like they never really cared.

The “don’t kill granny” message is absolutely fucking horrible. Even if everyone is careful people will still get it and risk passing it in to the vulnerable. What a way to completely fuck our kids and young people even more, by thinking that they, rather than the virus, are responsible for causing death to their loved ones.

[quote NotAKaren]@ChaChaCha2012 This weeks message is blame the young people and telling them 'don't kill gran'. Last week it was people WFH should feel guilty for others loosing their jobs in Pret. Anything so that we turn on each other. They govern by gaslighting.

[/quote]
This is absolutely right

There's a lot of 'because X is ok, I'm going to do Y'

But we know full well that's how people are.

Blaming predictable human behaviour is pointless, you have to preemptively account for it.

There was a policy in March and April of stay close to your home and no travel beyond that. The day Boris came out in May and said no more travel restrictions, you had plenty travelling hundreds of miles to the bloody beaches. Give people an inch and they take a mile. We know that.

Agree the joined up communication from the government has vanished. To begin with I thought they were doing their best. Now they are doing literally nothing

@MadameBlobby

The governments have been completely dishonest and lied to us all along. It’s no wonder people are fed up. I’ve stuck to all the rules all along and other than hardship and misery I feel it’s got me precisely nowhere and with no end in sight. Screw this government, their spineless so called advisors, and their lies.

I think theres also been an element of people thinking it's going to be a long, miserable winter and lockdown was tough, so I'm going to enjoy the summer while I can.

Through August cases have started to rise and then with the schools back last week it sees cases quickly shoot up. Schools will be the main spread and offices if the government get their wish of everyone back.

@Desperado24

See, maybe I am an idiot but what’s the problem that makes people think we have relaxed too far?

It’s not an increase in hospital cases or deaths?

All we have is an increase in “cases”. A case being someone who has tested positive.

Pretty sure I saw somewhere that about 170,000 people a day are being tested in the UK. Many of these don’t have symptoms or have very mild symptoms.

The percentage of tests that come back positive is very low.

Months ago the hospitals were filing up and only a few thousand tests a day were being done - mainly of people so ill they were already in hospital.

“Cases” is a completely meaningless figure.

Agree with every word. To begin with the plan was the protect the NHS. Now the 'plan' seems to alternate between pretending all is normal and cramming on a train to work at a desk in the city and then panicking that more people are getting a mild illness with (so far) no increase in hospitalisation. Leadership? What Fucking leadership?

@annabel85

There's a lot of 'because X is ok, I'm going to do Y'

But we know full well that's how people are.

Blaming predictable human behaviour is pointless, you have to preemptively account for it.

There was a policy in March and April of stay close to your home and no travel beyond that. The day Boris came out in May and said no more travel restrictions, you had plenty travelling hundreds of miles to the bloody beaches. Give people an inch and they take a mile. We know that.

Exactly, although part of me wonders if this was intentional. If what you actually wanted was herd immunity, undermining and over-complicating messages plus the PM and half the Cabinet doing a one rule for the powerful, one for the plebs routine would be an excellent way to go about it. Though otoh, I doubt this fucking shower are smart enough for that. But either way, whether through intention or incompetence, they have created a situation where normal, predictable human behaviours have done exactly what they always do in such situations.

It's the non distancing EVERYWHERE when people very easily can. What people on here have been saying for weeks.

you could meet a friend at an outside restaurant without letting your kids crawl all over them and hugging each other.

Blaming predictable human behaviour is pointless, you have to preemptively account for it

Exactly.

Also they had to oversell the threat of the virus back in March to scare the shite out of people into compliance, then they had to minimise it to get people out there spending. The truth is it’s probably halfway between the scary shite and “it’s just the flu” but who really knows due to the lack of honesty and competence of government.

People will behave how they’ll behave. Most people aren’t selfish fuckers who don’t care but it suits the government well to make us think they are.

I think many weren’t following the rules anyway as either didn’t care or believed they could risk assess better than the scientists etc.

Add to that all the parents who are now not following the guidance as claim no point now the children are in school and it can only go one way.

I think many have forgotten there are staff in school as well as vulnerable children.

Well, it's a combination of people relaxing (understandable) and a sizeable number of people who never really gave a fuck in the first place, think the rules don't apply to them, and blame everything on the government instead of accepting responsibility for their own individual behaviour.
It's not unique to Britain though, seems to be happening to some extent everywhere.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

I think many weren’t following the rules anyway as either didn’t care or believed they could risk assess better than the scientists etc.

Add to that all the parents who are now not following the guidance as claim no point now the children are in school and it can only go one way.

I think many have forgotten there are staff in school as well as vulnerable children.

But when the measures seem to make no sense who can blame people really. This was entirely foreseeable. I have taken the view that because schools are open it’s important to be more careful not less and have now stopped my already very minimal going out and seeing family members. Other people think that if schools are open with no SD then other contact must be fine. They’re not necessarily selfish, thick or stupid but in the absence of clarity and what seems like nonsensical measures they’ve taken that view.

I had to tell my kids last night they can’t be in houses with their friends, but they can spend 6 hours sitting next to them at school with no SD?!

Honestly I’ve complied with every letter of every rule of this shite so far despite emotional and financial hardship but I have just about reached my limit with it. And I’m not selfish, stupid or anything else but I am only human.

Now the 'plan' seems to alternate between pretending all is normal and cramming on a train to work at a desk in the city and then panicking that more people are getting a mild illness with (so far) no increase in hospitalisation.

The regular alternation between 'everyone has to now go back to the office' , 'everyone must now go back to school' and the panic over any rise in cases is a complete mind fuck and juxtaposition.

Pick a strategy and stick to it.

@MadameBlobby

The “don’t kill granny” message is absolutely fucking horrible. Even if everyone is careful people will still get it and risk passing it in to the vulnerable. What a way to completely fuck our kids and young people even more, by thinking that they, rather than the virus, are responsible for causing death to their loved ones.

Agreed. Although in many cases it might be "Don't kill Mum" (or Dad or a sibling ) if they are vulnerable. Plenty of children are going back into school worried that they will bring the virus home. That's affecting their mental health.

Pubs, shops and even schools can work if people are socially distancing and being hygienic. The problem is less about opening up but about people being so lax.

Standing too close, not being sensible about visiting indoors at home (where they are most likely to spread and catch the virus), not wearing masks, young people going to raves and parties with no distancing at all, very poor hygiene. The other day someone sneezed right by me with no effort to catch it or even use their elbow/turn away, and they weren't using a mask. Why cant they just think of others for a change??

Those are the things which are spreading virus around, not the fact that we are out and about more.

If they did catch it, and it went from them to granny (or parent, or medically vulnerable sibling/friend) then they would feel 1000 times worse than from hearing the public health message and taking the precautions now which will minimise the chances of that happening.

Knowing you have done everything you could, is way preferable to a life of 'if only'

Agree the joined up communication from the government has vanished. The English government you mean. Nicola Sturgeon does a daily briefing. People up here are moaning about that. No wonder the percentage of Scots wanting independence is rising. We are completely ignored.

But if that’s the case why not pass the message onto granny to stay away as well for her own sake and so her grandkids don’t feel guilty?

I hate the way old people have been infantilised in all this too, ostensibly “for their own good”.

Boris is shit isn’t he? The whole government is shit.

This is just usual tactics of passing the buck.

But what if they catch it in school and pass it on to a vulnerable person? More likely to catch it in a class of 30 than from a couple of friends.

@derxa

Agree the joined up communication from the government has vanished. The English government you mean. Nicola Sturgeon does a daily briefing. People up here are moaning about that. No wonder the percentage of Scots wanting independence is rising. We are completely ignored.

Excellent point and I apologise for my English-centric message. If Scotland gets independence please can you move the boundary down a bit?

It does seem that many are more relaxed even when out people aren't respecting 2 meters , several times i have been in a que and people have practically stood on me and i don't care if they have a mask on or not as i all I see is fiddling with masks and shoved in pockets and used god knows how many times ,so i have no confidence in them for general public and in fact since use if them cases seem to of gone up , maybe just a coincidence but seems to give some a false sense of security and they think they can stand on top of the next person.
People also are forgetting the rules and struggling to keep to them as its not normal and we are social creatures in general , a few weeks everyone could manage but long term it becomes harder
I mean i still cant see my nan and mum technically in the same room .
Schools & work and restaurants etc had to go back but with that will come higher numbers .
Some pubs / restaurants are great and really follow guidelines others don't seem to bother so much - so I avoid those ones
All we can do is our best as we can't control others

@halcyondays

But what if they catch it in school and pass it on to a vulnerable person? More likely to catch it in a class of 30 than from a couple of friends.

The whole point is we should only be doing what's necessary and yes if we want to go out and spend then that's great, but don't make it even worse by seeing heaps of other people.

It's like saying oh we've have to walk in the road so surely we should all stand there for longer and lie down. The more you do the more likely it will spread.

Basically people who can't distance when it's easy to distance will ruin it for everyone else. As they did pre lock down.