Surely they can’t keep schools open as normal if cases keep going up like today!

[Worriedmum999]

My daughter went back to school last Thursday. She really needed to go as lockdown played havoc with her mental health. She was fine doing her academic work but she is someone who needs the social side of school.

We are a vulnerable family and, with this shitshower of a government, I had no faith that cases wouldn’t rise and I wouldn’t be forced to take her out of school again. But I cannot believe that she has been back 2 days and the jump in cases has been so huge. I honestly expected us to be able to get to half term. Of course deaths are going to rise now. Why wouldn’t we follow the pattern of the other European countries. Add to that the fact that people can’t get tested now and we’re fucked. And I’m so fucking angry and upset about the damage that this is doing.

What are the government going to do? Surely it will be impossible to expect parents to keep sending their children to schools when the death toll is huge again and the ICUs are full.

No they haven't thekeating

@Friendsoftheearth

Secondary school aged children should be kept at school at all costs, I have been horrified by the explosion of self harm, anxiety, eating disorders, depression even among previously healthy and happy children, not to mention what it has done to those that were already struggling.

We have experienced an actual suicide of a fifteen year old boy this summer, due to the pressure so I am not sure people have considered the true impact of the pandemic for some children. It has been horrendous.

Being forced to be locked down at home with family at this age for months on end, the loss of education at the most crucial moment, the loss of friends, support, the impact on exams and attainment. The future.

There is no way a secondary schools should ever be closed again unless the situation is so severe that the hospitals can no longer cope - the level of a national emergency has been reached, because the consequences to the children are just too high.

I totally agree. I have two secondary kids myself and as a group they’ve either been forgotten about or treated like an inconvenience because they have the temerity to grow up and risk spreading the infection. As if this is their fault.

Some countries didn't close their schools in the first wave even.

It’s too early for schools to have had a significant impact on numbers. So why, when cases start to rise, do the ‘close schools NOW’ cries start?

Scottish schools have been back for About 3 weeks haven't they?

What happened to Chris Whitty's "to keep schools open we will have to close other things" and "we are at the limit of what we can reopen". Sinc then the government has reopened totally non-essential businesses like casinos, which have an adverse effect to society.
Even in local lockdown areas where people can't visit their family, pubs are still open.
It is ridiculous and the government should start listening to their medical advisors. Close the pubs, casinos, bars, restaurants etc before closing schools. Stop people flying abroad in sealed tin cans for non-essential travel before closing schools.
Education is far more important, even though it doesn't fill the tax coffers.
The pp above who said that younger children have time to catch up on their education is right. But older children starting and taking their GCSEs and A levels do not have time to catch up. How can they start their new courses under these conditions. And how will they take exams next spring/summer under these conditions.

Well quite. And hasn’t the WHO’s position shifted in the last few weeks towards ‘be more Sweden’?

I dont want my teens online learning forever.

They need social contact as much as young kids. Even more so in all honestly.

Flowers in the attic springs to mind!!!!

@SoupDragon

It’s too early for schools to have had a significant impact on numbers. So why, when cases start to rise, do the ‘close schools NOW’ cries start?

Scottish schools have been back for About 3 weeks haven't they?

Yep, this is week 4. A number of schools have had cases but I don’t think there have been clusters linked to schools - yet

Yes!! Friendsoftbeearth.

We also risk the wrath of millions of under 30s who have seen their life chances and indeed their whole lives evaporate and sacrificed over night for something that does not even affect them.

Do we suppose they will be endlessly content to make such enormous sacrifices indefinitely?

@SoupDragon

It’s too early for schools to have had a significant impact on numbers. So why, when cases start to rise, do the ‘close schools NOW’ cries start?

Scottish schools have been back for About 3 weeks haven't they?

Yes, and the small number of cases in Scottish schools have been tracked and isolated, which is and has always been the plan for when schools returned. So it’s working well so far.

The biggest issue with the Scottish school return was that everyone started testing for the inevitable colds, and they ran out of testing capacity. I think it was 75,000 tests and 49 positives amongst school aged children in the first few weeks.

Closing schools is not the only way to stop transmission.
Close the non-essential entertainment and travel sector first, that is where most transmission is currently taking place. There was a councillor from Bolton on news last night saying that in Bolton it was young people working in the entertainment/pub/bar/restaurant sector who were getting infected and transmitting the disease. So why are those businesses still open? I do understand the economic side of it, but if these areas have been identified as spreading the disease, then they should be closed.

I do also think that the fact that the schools where there have been outbreaks seem to mostly involve the teachers needs evaluating. Are staff rooms not suitable for social distancing?
All of the focus has been on the pupils being the breeding ground for disease, but maybe other areas of the school need to be looked at also.
Simply closing schools and keeping children and young people at home is not necessarily the only way to address the virus in schools. To protect their mental health and education, other ways to protect teachers and pupils need to be found.
And pupils are not the only sources of infection within a school. Schools are not an island. People can pick up the virus from supermarkets, opticians, transport systems, socialising etc.

What I would add to that is that I do wish that the government would factor in what home schooling means for people, families and particularly women.

I have had to do it regardless of the health issues I have, the responsibility of which has exacerbated my condition. I am very much aware that many, particularly women who according to the stats have borne the brunt of child care anyway in the settings closing down.

And I don't want to moan. But I don't wish to be shot down by anyone here either as i have a right to speak about that situation and my own.

Since March families were divided into three groups at our end. Key worker families whose kids were accepted into school, so called vulnerable familiies a broad category which we don't fall into , and other families who were deemed able to mangage school work on their own.

Managing school work at home involves someone supporting and coordinating it. It doesn't just happen by itself, it also needs space and funds and it seems although I only know what is happeneing around here, that the Government scheme to provide computers is not working.

There is also a concern, that schools are not receiving enough PPI and/or hand santiser or face masks. Once again, shoot me down if you like mumsnetters. I don't see myself as a doom merchant, but if the parents or parent or carers are expected to carry on supporting home schooling then we need better plans in place .

One mum remarked back in March that things like Printer Inks were expensive (and paper, needed for home schooling, and pens and for that matter double at least for heating costs and food)

and that is not even talking about the extra burden that some parents have experienced on their mental health. And so many seem to be saying that theirs has taken a bashing in lockdown. With the extra work involved in supporting their kids through it.

So I haven't even mentioned what we are supposed to do all this work on and with financially. I am sure there are lots of parents and mums who've been up in the early hours managing it all. Well done them, but I would like them to get some extra help and some recognition.

and I think in some countries we'd be seeing a jump in hospital intakes by now if there was to be one.

Hospitalisations in France and Italy are now going up. Almost exactly as predicted based on what happened in Florida and some other US states.

It seems unlikely that the same sequence of - infections driven by the young -> average age of those infected rises for a bit -> hospitalisations & ICU admissions rise -> deaths rise isn't going to happen here.

I've not yet seen any evidence that suggests the virus has mutated and weakened in any way that would make it less dangerous. We just seem to be having exactly the same conversations they were having in the US in June/July.

It doesn't mean schools should be the first to close, but realistically, if we want to keep children in education we're going to have to think harder about families restricting their social activities outside school. Schools will stay open when the community level is as low as actually possible.

Sorry if that is slightly off thread.

Almost exactly as predicted based on what happened in Florida and some other US states

As far as I know the percentages of hospitalisations/deaths in Europe compared to cases is much, much lower than Florida. And cases have been rising in Europe for many weeks.

It doesn't mean schools should be the first to close, but realistically, if we want to keep children in education we're going to have to think harder about families restricting their social activities outside school. Schools will stay open when the community level is as low as actually possible.

Yes, close the non-essential areas of the economy that have been proven to where the virus is being transmitted before closing schools. The government is not doing this. Even in lockdown areas pubs and bars are still open even though people cannot see their families.

It doesn't mean schools should be the first to close, but realistically, if we want to keep children in education we're going to have to think harder about families restricting their social activities outside school

Agreed. We are doing very little now except school, with bike rides etc at weekends. I’m happy to limit all other activity if it means my children can get an education.

First of all, at this point death is not the real issue, but it is emerging that the long term effects of covid can be horrendous and yes, young people are not immune to it.

^^this is irrelevant to anything.

The virus is horrid, really nasty. I accept and understand that.

But we can’t actually change that it is here and here to stay. A vaccine is likely to only be partly effective. Therefore there is no option but to crack on and accept this additional life risk.

I completely get that there is a chance it may wreck my life forever, but so may cancer or heart disease. It may well mean we all have shorter lives, not just the current elderly. There is no magic wand to go back to pre-covid however much some people want one and wrecking all our lives and our kids education is not it!

Keep calm and carry on is all any of us can do.

@Kaktus

It doesn't mean schools should be the first to close, but realistically, if we want to keep children in education we're going to have to think harder about families restricting their social activities outside school

Agreed. We are doing very little now except school, with bike rides etc at weekends. I’m happy to limit all other activity if it means my children can get an education.

Same here

Can you imagine a situation where schools closed but non-essential businesses stayed open? This government has consistently put the education and mental health of children and young people last.

'agree with hereinthesticks re entertainment industry

Could someone please just tell me how to do that quote thing. Thanks

But I cannot believe that she has been back 2 days and the jump in cases has been so huge. I honestly expected us to be able to get to half term. Of course deaths are going to rise now. Why wouldn’t we follow the pattern of the other European countries. Add to that the fact that people can’t get tested now and we’re fucked. And I’m so fucking angry and upset about the damage that this is doing.What are the government going to do? Surely it will be impossible to expect parents to keep sending their children to schools when the death toll is huge again and the ICUs are full.

The jump and schools starting are unrelated. It's got a 2 week gestation. So we'll see in 2 weeks if the schools cause a jump.

Deaths won't necessarily rise. I don't know why you've jumped to that conclusion. Deaths have not been increasing.

ICU's were not packed at the peak of the pandemic, why would they be now. The death toll has been non exsistant for children so it's not really a concern when talking about schools. The doll toll was also never that high. Especially when you take out the now made up deaths. It was no worse than a bad flu season.

Other countries have had their schools open for ages and it has not been an issue. Lots of kids including my own have been at school and nursery thoughout the pandemic. It's not been an issue.

You're stressing about somthing that hasn't happened and in all likleyhood won't happen. We don't know what will happen this winter, so just cross that bridge when we come to it.