Surely they can’t keep schools open as normal if cases keep going up like today!

[Worriedmum999]

My daughter went back to school last Thursday. She really needed to go as lockdown played havoc with her mental health. She was fine doing her academic work but she is someone who needs the social side of school.

We are a vulnerable family and, with this shitshower of a government, I had no faith that cases wouldn’t rise and I wouldn’t be forced to take her out of school again. But I cannot believe that she has been back 2 days and the jump in cases has been so huge. I honestly expected us to be able to get to half term. Of course deaths are going to rise now. Why wouldn’t we follow the pattern of the other European countries. Add to that the fact that people can’t get tested now and we’re fucked. And I’m so fucking angry and upset about the damage that this is doing.

What are the government going to do? Surely it will be impossible to expect parents to keep sending their children to schools when the death toll is huge again and the ICUs are full.

I'm in an area of Greater Manchester that has just gone back into the "ref zone ". We are already in partial lockdown. I'm assuming it's only a matter of time before DD's school is fully or partially closed again. I'm not telling anyone and putting as positive and as "it'll be fiiiiiiiiine" demeanour for everyone.
It's fucking exhausting.

Ref? Red, I mean 😂

dead I agree, we closed everything as a precaution. Now we know it does not kill children, or healthy people we can far more selective about how we deal with any potential second wave.

People could start following the rules. The pictures I see on social media with people hugging friends and sitting around restaurant tables, clearly not the same/two households and nowhere near 2m apart.Maybe the adults could start being adults so our kids can get the education they deserve.

YES. Agree with this 100%.

fly I didn't suggest we lock down a large number of vulnerable people did I, if you read the post. I suggested we give people the choice, and also the means of support to isolate if they need to. Funding should be directed at protecting those that are most likely to die, not a mass closure of everything in the country. Given it is a tiny percentage of people that are at very high risk, they should be the ones given the option to stay at home and supported at home. They don't have to, but they have the option to do so.

We don't just close the country every time we get high infection rates, we can't because the country will be bankrupt, so how will you support anyone vulnerable or not then?!

We need to be thinking longer term. The vaccine is not a done deal. We need to work around the virus, with solutions.

For some reason in the UK most people have stopped dying of it. It may be because we are all keeping our distance so the viral load people get is lower so they get mild versions of it. Or it may have killed off the very old and sick already and those left are stronger. Or doctors are getting better at dealing with it without using ventilators or probably a combination of all those reasons.

There will be more damage done if schools close again than if we keep them open. In any second wave I want us to prioritise the young over the old this time.

OP it would hel maybe to settle your mind to go look round and see what schools have implemented to keep the children safe..only you can;t for that very reason,and that is the answer to your question.I work in a school and trust me its the safest it possibly can be.We can do no more to protect everyone.Its amazing,yes its different and strange but all staff take this so seriously and we all want to do everything we can to protect the children and each other,its not a game to us,We know our responsibilities and what we need to do and I promise you we are doing just that,I understand your concerns and it makes for dreadful reding let alone trying to get your head round.During the early days of this back in march/arpril.may my head was so not in a good place and I felt I was sliding into a kind of depression.The thing that helped me most of all was turning off the news and social media and avoiding as much as I could with regard to this.I gave myself 5 mins a day to keep nformed then switched off.The barage of distress and confusion and hysteria being pumped out constantly did more damage I believe than anything else.Schools will stay open as long as we can and do everything in our power to do whats right...its a challenge on an almighty scale but we want to do this and get it right.I hope it might be some reassurance to you a little.

@Worriedmum999

My daughter went back to school last Thursday. She really needed to go as lockdown played havoc with her mental health. She was fine doing her academic work but she is someone who needs the social side of school.

We are a vulnerable family and, with this shitshower of a government, I had no faith that cases wouldn’t rise and I wouldn’t be forced to take her out of school again. But I cannot believe that she has been back 2 days and the jump in cases has been so huge. I honestly expected us to be able to get to half term. Of course deaths are going to rise now. Why wouldn’t we follow the pattern of the other European countries. Add to that the fact that people can’t get tested now and we’re fucked. And I’m so fucking angry and upset about the damage that this is doing.

What are the government going to do? Surely it will be impossible to expect parents to keep sending their children to schools when the death toll is huge again and the ICUs are full.

If they’ve only been back 2 days does it not seem unlikely that this is attributable to schools going back, given the incubation period?

Are they really going up? Or is it just Saint Boris telling us they are? (You can tell when he's lying, because his lips are moving.)

Saint Boris is not in charge of testing everyone in the country is he?!

The numbers are going up, but not massively and only in certain areas.

@Friendsoftheearth
If you read my original post I didn't suggest locking down anyone - you raised the subject. I was responding to that. I suggested everyone should restrict their activities to protect the large (not tiny) number of people who are clinically vulnerable.

Nowhere did I suggest closing the country down. Not sure where you got that idea from.

If, in order to protect others, you don't go to the theatre or a concert. Or you limit the number of people in shops, gyms and other leisure centres, then that is a very small sacrifice to make so that the others can move in society safely.

I can't see how any reasonable person would object to that.

France is at 9000 new cases a day. Hospitalisations are beginning to go up. The reason deaths are so low at present is new cases are in the young. This then eventually spreads back. We weren’t testing in February. What we saw in April was the fuse before it went bang because of testing now we’re seeing the fuse hit earlier that’s all. Unfortunate deaths will inevitably follow.

Testing isn’t keeping up and we’re just about to open Universities. What would you put your money on happening? Safe bet I’d say!

fly We are already doing that! We are already leading a very restricted life as far as I can tell. I haven't been to the theatre, concert etc for months. Shops all limit to four customers here. No parties or festivals. It is already happening.

So are you suggesting we restrict people further?

If, in order to protect others, you don't go to the theatre or a concert. Or you limit the number of people in shops, gyms and other leisure centres, then that is a very small sacrifice to make so that the others can move in society safely.

People are doing all that. Or they should be.

The question is what happens if we have to lockdown further than we are at this point.

oak There are difference though, significant ones between what happened spring versus now.
I agree numbers are going up, but we do have better treatments for those that are ill, we do have the option of shielding certain groups, we have the option of closing certain sectors before we lock down, we have some arsenal this time, some firepower that we can use and we know it works.

We were just sitting ducks in the spring, waiting for the wave to engulf us. This time we can see in the horizon a small wave building, and I suggest we don't just sit there this time!! We build a boat, we change direction. We head for the beach. Whatever. Bad analogy maybe but you get the gist

No more lockdowns ffs. Or does the average mumsnetter want our economy fucked for a generation??

I agree with TheSunisStillShining on page 1.
My children have gone in today, but I think they wont be in long. I have auto immune disease, and I am very worried about the long term impact of Covid. Out of the people I know who have had it, two have heart conditions now, one will never work again, and another is struggling with fatigue and general malaise, (she is only 20). All fit and healthy people before this.
There is also the fact that we have absolutely no idea of the long term problems this virus could cause, things we may not see for decades (like shingles with Chicken Pox) .
Deaths are low at the moment because it is largely in the 20-30 age group, but cases are also rising in other groups now, as it spreads from young adults .

Deaths are low at the moment because it is largely in the 20-30 age group So it is up to us to be absolutely scrupulous about SD and contact with older people. It is blindingly obvious that we can avoid the death rate going up again by ensuring we socially distance from those most at risk. It is not rocket science.

Unfortunately, much as I'd like it not to be so, cases are rising quickly and exponentially www.travellingtabby.com/uk-coronavirus-tracker/

I don't want to be a doom merchant, but I think we're already at the stage where local lockdowns are going to do little to contain the situation. It seems impossible to contain the virus and sacrificing our children's education until a vaccine is found seems a way worse solution to me, than living with it to an extent with the acknowledgement that elderly and vulnerable are prone to worse outcomes- as they would be with most viruses - if they catch it.

@Friendsoftheearth yes but unfortunately our Government is incompetent. Also it’s wishful thinking to protect vulnerable efficiently enough. This virus spreads pre symptomatically. Once cases in community rise chances of that healthcare worker or cleaner at old people’s home having it increase. Yes we treat better but unfortunately no treatments have been found which are taken at home or outside icu. Hence hospitals quickly fill up. The treatments don’t as yet change the amount needing hospital.

If you want to see where we’re headed just follow the countries a few weeks ahead if us. What we’re attempting to do by opening up pretty much as normal schools, Uni’s etc is unsustainable. Shame Gov didn’t think through a sustainable plan.

@rookiemere Exactly. Feel like a doom merchant too and most prefer a comfortable lie than the reality. However it’s so obvious where we’re headed, easy enough just to look at Europe. Have you followed how track and trace is doing? I was reading apparently we’re running low on reagents hence delays 🤦🏽‍♀️

oak I am looking at France and Spain, and I am not alarmed. Spain now has 10,000 cases a day, we are not seeing overflowing hospitals.
SD and new precautions WILL help, extra handwashing and extra care this time will help. People know what to do to minimise their own risks now. Those most at risk will be retired and at home, and can adjust to the new infection rates by having shopping delivered, and SD.

To say we will just be overwhelmed again is slightly pessimistic and negative. Sweden didn't lock down at all, and they have allowed the virus to run its course, whilst protecting older people. We will probably do the same this time around.

Don't forget those that die from covid on average would only have lived for another 6/12 months maximum on average anyway, they were always going to die from something whether it was the flu/covid or something else. As sad as it is, they were coming to the end of life - the majority anyway. There are exceptions, but this has been the conclusion all over the world.

It’s too early for schools to have had a significant impact on numbers. So why, when cases start to rise, do the ‘close schools NOW’ cries start?
Why not look at where these existing cases are coming from, and close those things down? Schools should be the last thing to close, and community spread needs to be kept low to accommodate that.

Worriedmum999

I am sorry you are feeling frightened and worried. This is not a nice feeling. Bring on the flack mumsnetters but personally i don't think it helps someone who is so worrried to be told to 'calm down' etc.

So I'm going to offer something Worriedmum999.

There is an 'upside' to worrying. And the good news is it can actually be a strenght. Even though I can't spell this morning...Reason being that if you are focussed on something then it can make you more careful and aware, and in fact prepared.

So like one of the teachers on here who mentioned remote learning, personally I'm prepared now to do distance learning at home again with my DD. Literally from one day to the next if we have to stay at home again.

I'm telling myself it can't possbly be as bad as March when the wave came and took us (not the government because they knew about it then and should have seen it coming) by surprise.

There has been I feel next to no empathy or understanding in some quarters, and i'm not talking about this board about how hard that job was and is, for us parents, and as you say with the pandemic all the fall out from changes in mental health and lack of support at the moment.

So as coping strategy you might wish to borrow mine 'preparation is the key to success' which I borrowed from a teacher somewhere along the line.

And please know you are not the only one who worries about this, ir is reasonable to worry, but i hope it helps you focus.

I heard one mother speaking about her daughter who had OCD and gave birth to a prem baby in lockdown. The mother said that in fact under those circumstances, the OCD was not a shortcoming but a strength. Wonder if that helps?

Also have any European countries closed their schools en mass again? I certainly haven’t heard if they have.