Surely they can’t keep schools open as normal if cases keep going up like today!

[Worriedmum999]

My daughter went back to school last Thursday. She really needed to go as lockdown played havoc with her mental health. She was fine doing her academic work but she is someone who needs the social side of school.

We are a vulnerable family and, with this shitshower of a government, I had no faith that cases wouldn’t rise and I wouldn’t be forced to take her out of school again. But I cannot believe that she has been back 2 days and the jump in cases has been so huge. I honestly expected us to be able to get to half term. Of course deaths are going to rise now. Why wouldn’t we follow the pattern of the other European countries. Add to that the fact that people can’t get tested now and we’re fucked. And I’m so fucking angry and upset about the damage that this is doing.

What are the government going to do? Surely it will be impossible to expect parents to keep sending their children to schools when the death toll is huge again and the ICUs are full.

“ Children's futures are best prioritised by a stable, well-planned, sustainable education, delivered by the best-qualified teachers, supported by a healthy family. It seems the height of folly for those supposedly on the side of children to actively push a model of school return that will lead to imbalances between rich and poor areas of the country, deprive the children most in need of the most experienced teachers of those staff, and risk their relatives?”

So true. I wish people could understand this and look at the situation with a little more nuance.

The trouble is high community transmission may not be driven by schools (or at least isn’t yet) and even smaller class sizes doesn’t prevent one case closing it down.

Back in June it was low but if it becomes endemic I’m deprived areas classes will still get cases.

There is some discussion that it has never changed from being endemic and an epidemic in the North West

Recruitment of less experienced enthusiastic young teachers who are at low risk from Covid may be preferable to retention of those individuals who have been in teaching for decades but seek to hide behind untenable Union diktats and sacrifice the education and welfare of a generation of children.

Unions cannot instruct the members.

certainly not the unions who promote only the welfare of the teachers who pay them,

You say this like it's bad thing. It's what unions do. It is their purpose.

If you're so cross about all this, the government is the one who lays out the rules, not the schools, not the teachers, not the unions.

@noblegiraffe

a PGCE currently takes less than 12 months with generous bursaries

But you just told the PGCE mentor to quit and now there isn’t anyone to train up these new teachers. Well done.

I have de Ja vu....

Didn't this happen on another thread??

@covidity

Recruitment of less experienced enthusiastic young teachers who are at low risk from Covid may be preferable to retention of those individuals who have been in teaching for decades but seek to hide behind untenable Union diktats and sacrifice the education and welfare of a generation of children.

Children’s futures must be the overriding priority here, not teachers‘, and certainly not the unions who promote only the welfare of the teachers who pay them, not children who do not.

It’s time to actually live your socialist principles!

My favourite of the 'enthusiastic but inexperienced' new army of teachers genre was the thread that suggested Dave (works in accounts) could slot right in as a maths teacher whilst Janet in HR would be a slam dunk at teaching English Lit.

My sister works in a special school as a teacher. She has small classes and her class size has increased by 50% because of new children referrals due to the mental health impact on children of lockdown and children falling out of mainstream education.

Her niece (who is 14) has had to drop out of mainstream school because her old school just bombarded them with online work without any actual teaching. She couldn't cope and started getting stressed about the work. She's ended up self harming and stopped eating and her parents are desperately trying to get help for her (as it appears she may now have an eating disorder) as she lost 7kg in August. She can't go back to school as her condition is too bad now yet the CAMHS/school support say they are overwhelmed with children with mental health problems and can't help. They've told her to go to A and E if it continues. Apparently there has been a spike in eating disorders in teens from the lockdown stress as it became the only thing they could control.

I think schools just have to keep on going. I have huge admiration for the teachers who have gone back to work and are trying to manage the situation. The knock on impact on the mental health of children is just too much to overlook as part of the decision in pushing ahead with face to face teaching.

@covidity

They must now keep schools open whatever happens.

Teachers who no longer wish to teach should leave the profession.

Good thinking. Not.

@covidity

Where I live borders a deprived city. I have friends who teach in schools with high numbers of vulnerable students. Their education will be disrupted. Three schools have already shut bubbles. There was an article earlier in the week stating high levels of deprivation has seen high numbers of the virus which have never returned to pre-Covid state. These pupils will continue to be disadvantaged as they will be sitting the same exams against students who are in areas of the low growth and transmission.

As you want schools open at all costs I hope you are lobbying your MP so students
can have laptops, their schools can install a good network (believe me it’s not like setting up a router in your home!), provide good remote learning etc.

@covidity

They must now keep schools open whatever happens.

Teachers who no longer wish to teach should leave the profession.

And there it is this early. The most pointless and stupid post I'll read all day.

Hi @Worriedmum999

I don't know if it is any consolation or help.

It is quite possible your area is a low cases/low prevalence area. As many on this thread know, I was totally fed up with the national media only reporting national statistics that I started a local coronavirus data service. I was worried sick last term sending my daughter back to school until I sourced the council level data in the governments daily data release and realised there were virtually no cases in my area. All that worry for nothing. I did however feel things could change quickly so I was checking it daily.

And to cut a long story short I felt there must be tonnes of other families in the same boat as us who would really just like to know how many cases are in their area. So I set up a daily email service and you can sign up for a daily email telling you how many cases are in your council.

You are welcome to sign up www.covidmessenger.com. It is possible that your area is doing ok and cases are low. And my one massive relief now that I have the data in my inbox every day, is that if cases start rising in my area, I will know in advance and way before the government declares a lockdown. Its a personal decision for everyone, but if cases rise, I want to lie low for a few weeks, reschedule anything non-essential until the local health teams get cases under control. In my humble opinion, it is taking too long for locals to be informed of outbreaks - there are loads of highly responsible people in our country who are quite happy to voluntarily take additional precautions if cases are rising. Which will help keep case growth down. But people can't do so because they don't know day to day what is happening locally.

Anyway, you are most welcome to sign up for a daily email for your area.

I have also attached a list to this post of the latest case numbers for every council in England. The data is for test samples taken on Sept 2nd - it takes 5-6 days for the results of the tests to be collated and published so looking at more recent data at council level is misleading as many results have not yet been reported in the stats.

@noblegiraffe

a PGCE currently takes less than 12 months with generous bursaries

But you just told the PGCE mentor to quit and now there isn’t anyone to train up these new teachers. Well done.

And also, many schools which normally take trainees aren't doing so this year because the logistics of adding 12 extra people to the bubbles are a nightmare. Recruitment to teacher training always looks good but very many trainees never actually finish the course, and more never start teaching post qualification. It's not that simple.

I was adding to noble's comment here...

@littleowl thank you signed up!

The "covidity" statement is marvellous and well worded. one of the reasons to read mumsnet. Can it be pinned somewhere (and then some teachers can throw darts at it if they want too)?

The "covidity" statement is marvellous and well worded. one of the reasons to read mumsnet. Can it be pinned somewhere (and then some teachers can throw darts at it if they want too)?

Which bit of *covidity's ineffable ullage are you referring to?

We will have to expect some flexibility on both sides once we go into the winter, but the idea of closing every school again nationally seems to have been ruled out for now. I will imagine there will be pockets of outbreaks, the odd closure here and there, and it will run its course over the winter.

Don't forget we have naturally breaks in the school cycle with school holidays.

Our teachers were wearing masks, as were the children (secondary aged dc) in communal areas, so in fact the teachers were as protected as they would be anywhere else (in a supermarket, flight or train) In our school it was calm, organised and welcoming. Hand sanitiser is everywhere, and it felt very, very safe.

I feel far more confident now that as a country we know how to deal with this far better than we did back in March, that the government will not slam on the brakes even if the numbers spike. We will keep calm and carry on is my guess.

We have the nightingales hospitals, we have the option of shielding the elderly and the very high risk, and we know most of us will not die from this virus. Lets hope that we can manage the winter well, and give education and well being, friendship and team sports back to our children.

@Friendsoftheearth

We will have to expect some flexibility on both sides once we go into the winter, but the idea of closing every school again nationally seems to have been ruled out for now. I will imagine there will be pockets of outbreaks, the odd closure here and there, and it will run its course over the winter.

Don't forget we have naturally breaks in the school cycle with school holidays.

Our teachers were wearing masks, as were the children (secondary aged dc) in communal areas, so in fact the teachers were as protected as they would be anywhere else (in a supermarket, flight or train) In our school it was calm, organised and welcoming. Hand sanitiser is everywhere, and it felt very, very safe.

I feel far more confident now that as a country we know how to deal with this far better than we did back in March, that the government will not slam on the brakes even if the numbers spike. We will keep calm and carry on is my guess.

We have the nightingales hospitals, we have the option of shielding the elderly and the very high risk, and we know most of us will not die from this virus. Lets hope that we can manage the winter well, and give education and well being, friendship and team sports back to our children.

Are you living on the same planet as us?

Teachers in classrooms aren't wearing masks and nor are the students - how does that make them as protected as supermarket workers?

Nightingale hospitals are a white elephant that have no staff and no country can just "carry on" if thousands of people are sick all at the same time, no matter how "mild" that illness might be for many. Thousands sick at the same time will shut down essential services and even a fraction of a percentage needing hospital care will throw the NHS into disarray again.

We shouldn't be prioritising children's friendships and team sports above health care

You sound very uptight.

So yes our teachers are wearing masks at all times, as are the students unless they are teaching - where they will be standing at a distance from anyone, so yes they are protected. The only time the masks come off is to eat food, or sitting at your desk.

The Nightingale work force plan is being devised now, I know this as a friend of mine is currently drawing up how they will manage the London site from the end of October onwards. Just because it did not have everything in place in the spring does not mean it won't have everything in place by the winter, you are being rather negative.

It is unlikely given all the measures in place now, with people not using transport as much, wfh, and SD and masks that we will return to tens of thousands being ill on the same day, but if we do, then I am sure schools will have contingency plans in place (as our school does) No need to shut it down altogether. It is normal to have more illness in the winter anyway, and bad weather etc.

The NHS was never in disarray, and was always functional and was not overcrowded, I would not expect that to change.

Our children's education should be the priority of the nation, every pub, restaurant and shop should close before we even consider making a school part time, much less closing altogether. We should have kept the schools open last time in hindsight, the same mistake will not happen again.

@Friendsoftheearth

You sound very uptight.

So yes our teachers are wearing masks at all times, as are the students unless they are teaching - where they will be standing at a distance from anyone, so yes they are protected. The only time the masks come off is to eat food, or sitting at your desk.

The Nightingale work force plan is being devised now, I know this as a friend of mine is currently drawing up how they will manage the London site from the end of October onwards. Just because it did not have everything in place in the spring does not mean it won't have everything in place by the winter, you are being rather negative.

It is unlikely given all the measures in place now, with people not using transport as much, wfh, and SD and masks that we will return to tens of thousands being ill on the same day, but if we do, then I am sure schools will have contingency plans in place (as our school does) No need to shut it down altogether. It is normal to have more illness in the winter anyway, and bad weather etc.

The NHS was never in disarray, and was always functional and was not overcrowded, I would not expect that to change.

Our children's education should be the priority of the nation, every pub, restaurant and shop should close before we even consider making a school part time, much less closing altogether. We should have kept the schools open last time in hindsight, the same mistake will not happen again.

Your school has all staff and students wearing masks even in the classroom? Then it must be the only school in the country doing it and why did you previously say it was in the corridors if in fact it's at all times?

The Nightingales being staffed and up and running I will believe when it happens - much like the world beating track and trace system that was due in June and is yet to materialize.

And of course the NHS is and was in disarray. Everything bar immediately life threatening treatment was suspended and in many places is yet to re start.

Schools are in no better place regarding remote teaching than they were in March. Of course there will be major disruption, the government is doing nothing to prevent it.

Our children's education should be the priority of the nation, every pub, restaurant and shop should close before we even consider making a school part time, much less closing altogether. We should have kept the schools open last time in hindsight, the same mistake will not happen again.

The NHS should be the priority. Ridiculous to say close shops - where will people get food? Don't be so silly.

How on earth could schools have been kept open and DCs and staff kept safe? We know a lot more now, fortunately.

But schools will close again. They are already. Part time is better than closure, I'd say.

The NHS should be the priority

The education crisis is as important as the health one.

So yes our teachers are wearing masks at all times, as are the students unless they are teaching - where they will be standing at a distance from anyone, so yes they are protected.

Except the government says this isn’t required so a lot of schools aren’t.

@MadameBlobby

The NHS should be the priority

The education crisis is as important as the health one.

But learning can happen online, health care can't.

Not bu the months of rubbish we had during lockdown it can’t. Plus school is for more than learning. It’s vital to the wellbeing of our young people.