Surely they can’t keep schools open as normal if cases keep going up like today!

[Worriedmum999]

My daughter went back to school last Thursday. She really needed to go as lockdown played havoc with her mental health. She was fine doing her academic work but she is someone who needs the social side of school.

We are a vulnerable family and, with this shitshower of a government, I had no faith that cases wouldn’t rise and I wouldn’t be forced to take her out of school again. But I cannot believe that she has been back 2 days and the jump in cases has been so huge. I honestly expected us to be able to get to half term. Of course deaths are going to rise now. Why wouldn’t we follow the pattern of the other European countries. Add to that the fact that people can’t get tested now and we’re fucked. And I’m so fucking angry and upset about the damage that this is doing.

What are the government going to do? Surely it will be impossible to expect parents to keep sending their children to schools when the death toll is huge again and the ICUs are full.

@Hereinthesticks

Didn't Chris Whitty say we'd reached the limit of reopening, or did I dream that? Yes, he did and the government have not let him speak publicly since. Apparently he was thinking of quitting. I wish he would and then he would be free to criticise the government.

Oh don’t quit. Have needed to hear his sense from inside!

The government aren't listening to SAGE any more. They have sidelined it with the JBC, which is run out of the Cabinet Office, where Dominic Cummings' ally and former boss Michael Gove is the responsible minister.

I dont think the rate of cases is an issue. The rate of deaths is an issue. Its like people getting upset because the rate if cold and flu go up when the kids go back to school or the weather turns. We have people now using more buses, trains, in workplaces. The cases are going to rise, but its whether it is killing people is the issue. It doesnt seem to be killing anywhere near the rate its infecting, so we will all just have to crack on, the same as we do during flu season.

If the government shut things down based on cases alone, then we are going to be on lockdown numerous times every year for the foreseeable, and then we really are f*ed.

@MarshaBradyo

Why?

What’s wrong with teaching about pandemic and virus. I assume you meant what you said. People moan about lack of science on here a lot assumed you were doing same.

Nothing talking at cross purposes. I’m very much of the belief that this is an ideal opportunity to get kids interested in science. The opportunity for our kids to have developed over the last few months was immense if parents engaged and talked that is. Exam years aside the life lessons for children as a result if this are enormous. In my opinion there have been loads of positives and in 5 plus years time once we’re through this the opportunities and society for them will be improved. Not helpful for those shortly leaving I know.

I do also think that the fact that the schools where there have been outbreaks seem to mostly involve the teachers needs evaluating. Are staff rooms not suitable for social distancing?

I really think inset days should have been banned. Mine involved 2 days with dozens of teachers sharing rooms, and no real social distancing. We are also not allowed masks. At least one person was actually coughing. If this leads to cases in a couple of weeks I will not be surprised.

As for staff rooms, ours is so small that that any more than two people in it means that you can't really socially distance in it. Especially if you actually want to use the kettle etc.

Oaktree I agree on that. Carnage aside as a science lesson it’s rich for interesting discussion. We started with why soap works and carried on to all the rest. They prefer science / maths subjects so wasn’t onerous.

@blackwych I am sorry to hear that. I know space and rooms are short in schools, but it seems short-sighted not to provide teachers with increased 'break-out' space (e.g. staff rooms within departments so teachers are in bubbles too, or use the hall (after all assemblies also seem a bad idea at the moment).

There was a very good live chart on a maths channel that could change parameters for infection rates which ten year old got into.

Anyway off topic a bit!

Are staff rooms not suitable for social distancing?

I've been talking to teachers I know and it seems that some schools are better equipped than others. One I've heard about have small staff rooms for each department so staff are almost in their own bubble per department, another has one large staff room which also houses work stations and computers where the staff do lesson planning etc and so are used by all of the staff at times.

Same way as one school I know of has separated each year group and zoned the school buildings, giving each bubble their own toilets and playground areas, completely separate from every other bubble but another school which only has two blocks of toilets has had to separate into a key stage three and then a key stage four bubble because the facilities don't allow for smaller bubbles.

@FlySheMust *What a vile attitude. It doesn't matter what you are prepared to do, fortunately. You don't get to decide, thank goodness. You'll have to do as you are told.

It isn't just the elderly who are vulnerable, you must know that. No one can be that stupid. Cancer patients, the chronically ill, those with severe asthma. These could be children, teens, young adults as well as the elderly.

But to hell with all of them as long as you get your way. I expect you vote Tory.*

Everyone under 50 has a 99.9% chance of surviving Covid. The only ones that don't are those with one of more chronic conditions where that chance plummets to a terribly scary 99.8% chance of survival. There have always been vulnerable people. There have always been people with cancer. Those people have now and have always had a risk of dying from any infection. Flu, coronaviruses, a sore throat. And we didn't shut down society and destroy the economy, starve African children to death, ruin the life chances of a generation of school children before, so why now?

@MarshaBradyo the “it’s good to be smart” you tube channel has some great ones. I made my husband watch the one on exponential growth when he starts saying things are an over reaction 🤣

Yep that one rings a bell. I enjoy the maths talk, really good

@Hereinthesticks Unfortunately every spare space is already in use. Perhaps I'll eat in my car, although it will be cold in winter...

@blackwych Oh that is sad to hear. There was talk about secondary school teachers staying in their classrooms at breaks and lunch, but admittedly it does sound pretty miserable. Staffrooms do sound quite good spaces for virus transmission though.

Lots of people don’t seem to be able to look further than their own nose.... It was the same back in March, but incredible that some people haven’t learn from that. Are there memories really that short.

Looking back, there was 1 Covid death on 12 March.... Two weeks later we were locked down. 4 weeks later, 1,000 were dying each day, despite lockdown.

I don’t believe history is going to repeat itself quite like that for all sorts of reasons, but it doesn’t mean that sharply rising cases are nothing to be concerned about because we currently have very low numbers of deaths.

It accept its also isn’t something to catastrophise about either, and personally I’m not feeling particularly anxious.

When we were in a similar position back in March, I remember writing that if your curtain caught alight, you wouldn’t say, “meh, It’s only the ends of an old curtain that’s smouldering. I’ll continue having my cup of tea.” You’d obviously try and put it out as you’d know the fire will spread even if you thought the loss of the curtain wasn’t a problem in itself. Same with Covid... it starts off small, but like a fire will quickly engulf things if ignored. I don’t see why people don’t seem to get this.

@Derbygerbil so what is your opinion about the pubs and bars and foreign holidays?

@Derbygerbil I believe because it is scary and upsetting. Some people don't open bills, some people don't go to the doctor when they first feel a lump.

@epythymy
Those people have now and have always had a risk of dying from any infection. Flu, coronaviruses, a sore throat. And we didn't shut down society and destroy the economy, starve African children to death, ruin the life chances of a generation of school children before, so why now?

No one is suggesting we do. those things.Your resort to hyperbole is ridiculous.

[quote ChanceChanceChance]@Derbygerbil I believe because it is scary and upsetting. Some people don't open bills, some people don't go to the doctor when they first feel a lump.[/quote]
It’s not this for me.

We don’t know exactly how this next part will happen as elements are different to March.

But it’s true it can be fast. However the threat to the economy and livelihoods is just as real so keeping this level of SD but businesses open appears optimal.

Of course rapid saliva tests would be great if they were to appear as suggested.

Btw I agree about March. The government was advised to lockdown by SAGE 1 week before it did. In that week, BJ said stupid stuff about how the great british public could not be denied the right to go to the pub. Yes, that was worth the extra week during which hundreds of thousands probably caught the virus and many of these died (no, it wasn't worth it BJ).
The same now. The government is currently telling young people to stop fuelling the current rise in infections, but won't actually shut the places where the young people are going (pubs, bars, foreign holidays) where the virus transmission is taking place.

.... so what is your opinion about the pubs and bars and foreign holidays?

I don’t have an issue with pubs and bars remaining open per se, but there should be more robust enforcement of social distancing rules within them by authorities... That’s easy for me to say though as it’s not like there’s lots of resources for that.

Those who are likely to act in ways that would spread Covid in pubs and bars are likely to congregate in private settings if pubs close.... which is clearly much harder to police.

Ultimately, if cases really rocket, pubs should be shut before schools.

@epythymy the issue is a significant number of people require hospitalisation. No these aren’t the elderly who often wouldn’t survive icu. Hospitals were full of people, men, late 40’s/50’s. Pregnant women too. You may quote a stat that may we’ll be true when the actual number infected is known but this only stands with decent healthcare. If you look to South America then the rate is way higher. If you take an average town/city in U.K. it doesn’t take long for it to fill up. Skilled nurses etc are the issue kit beds. I live near a major City in U.K. and a friend works there. They were full. She was working at below standard care standards. That was when the NHS was cleared to only pretty much deal with Covid. Don’t underestimate this. They’re gearing up for big winter influx.

You could say funding closure on closure is more like being to afraid to open a bill. The economic reality will hit at some point.

You are catastrophising. Hospitalisations and deaths are low. That's despite bars, restaurants, hairdressers etc open for months.
Let your DC enjoy their education. They deserve some normality.

@SqidgeBum

I dont think the rate of cases is an issue. The rate of deaths is an issue. Its like people getting upset because the rate if cold and flu go up when the kids go back to school or the weather turns. We have people now using more buses, trains, in workplaces. The cases are going to rise, but its whether it is killing people is the issue. It doesnt seem to be killing anywhere near the rate its infecting, so we will all just have to crack on, the same as we do during flu season.

If the government shut things down based on cases alone, then we are going to be on lockdown numerous times every year for the foreseeable, and then we really are f*ed.

Trouble is that there was only one covid death 2 weeks before lockdown and then we had close to a thousand a day a month after lockdown. That's the nature of exponential growth. Cases/deaths don't increase slowly/gradually - they start low and then absolutely rocket. We have to nip it in the bud as soon as it starts to spread otherwise we lose control again.

We "may" be lucky and find that it's become weaker or treatments are better and so deaths don't rise exponentially again, but that's one hell of a risk. By the time we notice deaths on the rise, it's too late to control it without drastic action.