Surely they can’t keep schools open as normal if cases keep going up like today!

[Worriedmum999]

My daughter went back to school last Thursday. She really needed to go as lockdown played havoc with her mental health. She was fine doing her academic work but she is someone who needs the social side of school.

We are a vulnerable family and, with this shitshower of a government, I had no faith that cases wouldn’t rise and I wouldn’t be forced to take her out of school again. But I cannot believe that she has been back 2 days and the jump in cases has been so huge. I honestly expected us to be able to get to half term. Of course deaths are going to rise now. Why wouldn’t we follow the pattern of the other European countries. Add to that the fact that people can’t get tested now and we’re fucked. And I’m so fucking angry and upset about the damage that this is doing.

What are the government going to do? Surely it will be impossible to expect parents to keep sending their children to schools when the death toll is huge again and the ICUs are full.

@Teateaandmoretea have you read up on the 1918 flu and the Antimaskers / lockdowns etc? Read up on this virus how it spreads pre symptomatically it’s the Disease X Gov feared. SARS 1 was v different easy to contain. More deadly viruses also easy to contain.

Our Government’s communication has been appalling that’s why there’s so little understanding.

And for those who are aghast at the staging of a charity football match, the government has agreed that the St. Leger race meeting can be held at Doncaster this week - with the potential of over 20,000 attendees over a four day period.

@Pinkmakeupbag I agree it should be a decision made between the school and the child based on individual need rather than from parents. But that doesnt mean that it shouldnt be there for those who truly need it

I have to say though in my area for my children they have full classes everyone has gone back across the board (Yr 3 and Yr 7)

To clarify I’m not advocating school closures far from it. I’m saying the Gov need a flexible plan to get us through the winter and that involves more creative ideas than crossing fingers.

@Friendsoftheearth agree 100%. My Octogenarian DPs are keeping safe by minimal trips. They would hate the idea that their grandsons education was compromisedeven more so than it has been already to protect them.

It was fine at the beginning when we didn't know demographics and scale of this, but now we do, so can and should be targeting the approach much more.

What can go wrong with that. Cheltenham anyone.

@Friendsoftheearth education is paramount to me. I’ve never been one to miss an afternoon for a cheaper flight etc. I’ve covered every single topic with them till HT when I’ll reassess. They’ve learnt so much from this Pandemic, hopefully ignited a love of science in them and had some interesting debates re Society and the effects this is having. So no not worried in the slightest. As we head into winter there’ll be a lot of “science covered by the music teacher” I’m sure we all remember those lessons. To think I school will be education as normal is naive. Yes they see their friends regularly too.

Hmmm.

On the 12th March 2020 there was one death in the UK. And we locked down on the 23rd when there were 149. And people were saying 'deaths are so low this is a massive over-reaction' and then deaths were at 1152 on the 9th April, when we'd already been locked down for over 2 weeks so not much transmission was happening in those weeks.

Deaths being low isn't, on it's own, enough to say risk is low. The cause (exponential transmission) and effect (deaths) are separated in time to such an extent you cannot meaningfully base risk assessment on the death rate.

In practical terms, I don't think schools are any safer than they were in March, really. They were handwashing then with the same numbers in the same rooms. Ventilation is probably better now, but there are no masks and the room sizes make SD impossible.

However, there is significant risk reduction elsewhere - no Cheltenham like events , masks in shops and on public transport. So it's not as bad as March.

We still don't have test and trace doing well enough to prevent a second wave with school reopening according to this Lancet paper www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(20)30250-9/fulltext.

Things aren't as bad as March but - particularly in state schools - there is a problem. We are not - in state schools - following the agreed scientific consensus for what safe school reopening looks like (smaller class sizes, social distancing).

Schools should get more money and until then - at a minimum- vulnerable parents should be allowed to keep children off without penalty. If they can't, then vulnerable people cannot protect themselves.

@Friendsoftheearth: "Many teachers did not want to go back to school, and were very vocal about it. Fact."
Misrepresentation of the facts. Again. You have missed out the vital part which is that (many) teachers did not want to go back to school (premises) unless appropriate safety measures were put in place. You know, the kind of precautions that other workers had had provided (e.g. bus drivers/retail workers after the entirely justifiable outcry about the risks they were facing).

@Oaktree55 it’s quite clearly a different virus.

And 1918 flu didn’t end the world however vile it was.

I think you need to read up on covid19

It also needs to be mentioned that the government could facilitate better and quicker testing by providing the country with better tests. Other countries are not stuck in testing stone ages with cheap inaccurate tests that take days. There are many other testing options out there. The government should spend less taxpayers' money on Wetherspoons and the hospitality industry and more on good quality quick test kits. That would catch more cases early on and limit the spread of the virus. And don't just give these good quick reliable tests to the aviation industry, give these tests to those in education and families too so our DC can get as much time in-school as possible this autumn/winter/next spring. Especially those for whom home-schooling isn't doable: e.g. GCSE and A level students who need good results to get onto the degree course that will ensure their life chances aren't permanently diminished.

The school document referenced a mobile testing unit on outbreak. I remember when and why they included it. This seems to have faded away.

Rapid testing keeps being mentioned on R4 as priority but still seems to be a while away.

@Teateaandmoretea are you seriously attempting to frame an argument by suggesting the number of deaths from Spanish Flu is acceptable! Not sure why I’m even replying.

@However, there is significant risk reduction elsewhere - no Cheltenham like events , masks in shops and on public transport. So it's not as bad as March Not for much longer, the government is under pressure from its donors (e.g. jockey club) to allow these events to accept the paying public again. The events are still taking place currently, just without crowds. But there was a trial rugby match with spectators recently. The government is already paving the way to allowing these mass events. They are happy to reopen events like these and jeopardise school reopening.

And for those who are aghast at the staging of a charity football match, the government has agreed that the St. Leger race meeting can be held at Doncaster this week - with the potential of over 20,000 attendees over a four day period.

What the....

What happened to prioritising schools? (though not funding them obvs)

Didn't Chris Whitty say we'd reached the limit of reopening, or did I dream that?

We’ve been focusing on exponential growth in homeschooling 🤣. I think what this Pandemic is highlighting is the poor understanding of maths and science in this country.

I've been listening to LBC on the way home from taking DS for a covid test btw. The presenter was pushing the agenda strongly that people need to get back in the office. That seems barmy to me if you can successfully work from home, it's the easiest way to reduce overloading on public transport and increase transmission rates which are already rising.

Yes without trade some businesses such as city centre sandwich bars and pubs will go out of business. But the genie is out of the bottle already. I'm 50 and I can't see a return to pre covid working full time in an office in my lifetime.

These businesses will have to diversify and perhaps move rurally, but we cannot squander our DCs chance of education in order to keep the founder of Pret rich.

And as for restarting mass sporting events - that's just madness.

@Oaktree55

We’ve been focusing on exponential growth in homeschooling 🤣. I think what this Pandemic is highlighting is the poor understanding of maths and science in this country.

The dc did all this but they also saw the figures on risk to dc.

@Friendsoftheearth

I don't know about you but I haven't got in me to do this all over again regardless, just to keep things fair! I want to get my dc back on track, economy fired up and life back. The idea that we are shelter with the elderly to keep things 'fair' repulses me.

The elderly have had a long and virus free life, they are retired with pensions. I on the other hand have everything to lose, I am not getting younger and my children are unlikely to get their childhoods back. I am actually not prepared to go into a full lockdown again unless our hospitals are unable to cope, and definitely not to keep the elderly from feeling it is unjust in some way!

What a vile attitude. It doesn't matter what you are prepared to do, fortunately. You don't get to decide, thank goodness. You'll have to do as you are told.

It isn't just the elderly who are vulnerable, you must know that. No one can be that stupid. Cancer patients, the chronically ill, those with severe asthma. These could be children, teens, young adults as well as the elderly.

But to hell with all of them as long as you get your way. I expect you vote Tory.

Rapid testing keeps being mentioned on R4 as priority but still seems to be a while away. It's all about the government's priorities and where it is happy to spend money. Infuriatingly, if it does procure better testing, it seems likely it will prioritise these to support people taking holidays by airplane and the aviation industry.
In hospitals currently, there is no quick testing either btw. Patients who have coronavirus symptoms are at best put together on a 'query' ward. It will take hours for a test result, sometimes longer. Many of these patients won't have coronavirus, but some will. The government will prioritise aviation over the NHS even.

Don’t understand your point. I was making a joke.

@MarshaBradyo the above was a reply to you.

Didn't Chris Whitty say we'd reached the limit of reopening, or did I dream that?
Yes, he did and the government have not let him speak publicly since.
Apparently he was thinking of quitting. I wish he would and then he would be free to criticise the government.

Why?

What’s wrong with teaching about pandemic and virus. I assume you meant what you said. People moan about lack of science on here a lot assumed you were doing same.

Didn't Chris Whitty say we'd reached the limit of reopening, or did I dream that?
He also said "some things may have to close to open schools".
Instead the government has ploughed on reopening things that are best kept shut during a pandemic: casinos, large sports crowds. Even now there is proof the virus is spreading from pubs and bars, they still keep these things open in areas of local lockdown.