UK doing ok

[ExmoorPony]

A lot of people seemed to love the fact our infection rates were so much higher than the rest of Europe.

Not so now! So much for Spain's strict lockdown and mask wearing policy.....it didn't work!

It does seem to be the case that countries that had early hard lock downs are now experiencing surges, look at south africa, peru. Spain, france, even ireland. Look at the muddle NZ is in now and Australia.
UK does seem to be doing comparatively better. I think that seems to be the case.
I don't think it is argument against lock downs as we had one but maybe Whitty was right when he said you had to time it right as it cannot be sustained for long and it can only be used once.
Hence when it lifts, cases pop up again.
Did the UK actually time it right?!
Maybe!
However deaths are low everywhere in europe now and rising cases does not seem to translate to rising deaths ( yet) si that is very postive for europe in any case.
It's so interesting to see all the different approaches.

@Timeforanotherusername

There was a lot of posts on here from people from other countries saying how much better they were doing and how the UK was so awful.

They were right, the UK was doing awful bit it was said in a gleeful way.

Much like the OP's here.

It's not a competition.

I don't want to hear the term 'proper lockdown' again.

In my opinion, the lockdown is Spain especially was cruel, especially for children. I really really worry about the damage they have done to the mental health of tbe poor kiddies.

I also think the extreme nature of the lockdown may have played a factor in the rise in cases now.

The UK may not have got a lot right but the actual lockdown I think they did. It should have been done a week earlier, but still allowing people time outside was critical.

I completely agree with this. I think our lockdone was just right. Not too harsh, not too soft - a goldilockdown if you will I have worked in a hospital the whole time anyway and loved seeing kids out playing, dog walkers and apart from the initial shopping drama, shopping has generally been very pleasant too. Chris whitty was right about lockdowns. Alot of what he said has proved to be the case. Even Boris' squashing the sombero in 12 weeks has more or less worked out. Not sure about his normal by christmas prediction though!

What is happening now has no bearing with the first lockdowns.
The UK was slow and late. It could have avoided many deaths. Which weren't that much worse than Spain or France. The thing is that France and Spain rose earlier and the UK could have paid more attention and lockdown earlier to be able to reopen later.

The key difference to the situation now is how the different countries have reopened.

Sorry, should have been:
"...the UK could have paid more attention and lockdown earlier to be able to reopen EARLIER."

@Lweji

What is happening now has no bearing with the first lockdowns. The UK was slow and late. It could have avoided many deaths. Which weren't that much worse than Spain or France. The thing is that France and Spain rose earlier and the UK could have paid more attention and lockdown earlier to be able to reopen later.

The key difference to the situation now is how the different countries have reopened.

I agree we have opened very well, apart from all the silly media nonsence to maximise confusion. But we are not so overseas tourist dependant so that has helped us as we are under less financial pressure than say spain

@Lweji

So much for Spain's strict lockdown and mask wearing policy.....it didn't work!

It did work.
Then they reopened...
And people thought they were safe.

This! Gloating at any nation suffering increased deaths to attempt to score points isn't a good look.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53656852

That article is from a month ago.
Spain was fine a month ago.
Things change literally overnight in CoronaLand.

I'm in Portugal. We are certainly tourism dependent.
But we have not opened the night life at all. Only restaurants are allowed and with distancing and masks.
The police didn't allow groups of foreign youths (Dutch, not Brits, btw) to congregate on the streets.

We never got our numbers very low, we reopened fairly early, but we've been managing to maintain numbers fairly steady since May.

I do think Spain could and should have handled it better.

I suspect we won’t be so smug in a months time when secondary schools and universities have caused our infections to get out of control.

@Lweji

What is happening now has no bearing with the first lockdowns. The UK was slow and late. It could have avoided many deaths. Which weren't that much worse than Spain or France. The thing is that France and Spain rose earlier and the UK could have paid more attention and lockdown earlier to be able to reopen later.

The key difference to the situation now is how the different countries have reopened.

I disagree completely.

At the end of this a country will be viewed on how it handled the whole pandemic.

I think the UK will be up there with the worst, but we don't know yet.

What is a fact is that more people have died in the UK than needed too. That is down to government incompetence.

A lot of people seemed to love the fact our infection rates were so much higher than the rest of Europe

Who are these "people" you (and the posters that think like you) refer to?

So much for Spain's strict lockdown and mask wearing policy.....it didn't work!.

The lockdown clearly did work though as it resulted in cases and deaths falling from very high levels down to very low levels.
It was only after lockdown ended and everything opened up that cases started to rise again.
covid19.who.int/region/euro/country/es

As for mask wearing not working, there is zero evidence for that as without a non masking control group, you don't know that cases would not have been even higher without mask wearing. (Masks reduce spread, they don't eliminate it and masks are not worn everywhere all the time).

There was a lot of posts on here from people from other countries saying how much better they were doing and how the UK was so awful

Smug ex-pats are always a pain. They're so pleased with themselves for moving overseas and getting away from all the irritating things in UK society (of which there are many) It distracts them from all the irritating things in their adopted country's society (of which there are many). Nowhere is perfect and smugness is nasty.

I suspect we won’t be so smug in a months time when secondary schools and universities have caused our infections to get out of control.

This thread isn't about schools but some people just can't resist.

I for one am certainly not smug about anything.

You sound quite smug yourself though.

I don't think anyone should be smug.
In relation to the UK I was worried as it was taking so long to lockdown when it looked like it was much needed, and angry at the UK goverment as I was watching the slow car crash develop.
I don't know about other people, but as most would have a link to the UK to post here, I'd expect more concern than glee, and posting more as examples of good practice than to gloat.

I think we should all watch what's happening in other countries to have a better idea of what works and what doesn't.

This really isn't a competition and other countries doing badly has consequences for international economy.

I think we do seem to be doing OK for now but of course we know how quickly it can change. I wonder if the fact we arsed up initially might mean that we’ve already had our worst spike but other countries who initially did better might have theirs to come.

Totally agree with time for anotherusername.

There was a lot of self flagulation on here as well as a lot of snide comments from other countries.

I think our lockdown was sensible. Yes it prob should have been a week earlier in London probably. Personally a more localized approach prob should have been employed from the start.
But we actually did a lot right,. But no one like to admit that on mumsnet.

And we are opening up sensibly. And we had a very generous furlough scheme which is about as un fort as it gets but no one seems to acknowledge that either.

The harsh extended lockdowns in countries such as Spain were terrible for children’s mental health and they will have lasting problems because of it.

They fact we extended a bit late may prove to our advantage yet. There may be more natural immunity in communities. Who knows. It ain’t over yet.

As for mask wearing not working, there is zero evidence for that as without a non masking control group, you don't know that cases would not have been even higher without mask wearing. (Masks reduce spread, they don't eliminate it and masks are not worn everywhere all the time).

Recent reports of outbreaks where people wore masks or didn't (nothing or face shields), strongly suggest masks do have a protective effect.

Unless all of europe is testing the same population groups and numbers of tests done (on individuals) comparisons are inaccurate.

Remember too our economy is taking the biggest hit of all G7 countries.

However, as much as dislike Johnson, not reopening nightclubs was the right thing to do.

Make comparisons with the best performing countries, such as Germany.

“ Un tory”not un fort

I think our lockdown was fine. I am not sure why people were clamouring to be shut in their houses with nothing open more than they were. To me that’s only ever going to be justifiable if there would be an actual benefit from that. Given we achieved a huge reduction in infections without a “stricter lockdown” it seems clear that wasn’t necessary. I agree Spain’s measures were disgusting. Small children cooped in tiny flats for 6 weeks. Appalling. How anyone can see that as in any way a good thing or something we should have aspired to is beyond me.

How anyone can see that as in any way a good thing or something we should have aspired to is beyond me

Agreed. It has had really awful effects on some children in my family who live in Spain. The worst thing is, they recognised that dogs needed to be walked, but apparently it was fine for children to be cooped up at home.
And I wonder how many people caught Covid going for their daily, socially distanced exercise in their own household? Very few, id imagine.

I think one of the UK's saving graces this summer is that we didn't have lots of young people from all over Europe coming here on holiday. Spain had got the virus under control locally, but because such a huge part of their economy is tied up with tourism they had to reopen for whatever short weeks they could to try and get some money into that sector over the summer.

As for the UK, yes it does seem to be the young who are driving our increased infections and that's why our death rate is still really low. They're the ones who are going out and partying and going on holiday, but they are the ones who will drive our herd immunity, which in the absence of a vaccine is our best hope for coping with the virus. The middle and older aged people I know are largely following 'the roolz'.

@Carycy

Totally agree with time for anotherusername.

There was a lot of self flagulation on here as well as a lot of snide comments from other countries.

I think our lockdown was sensible. Yes it prob should have been a week earlier in London probably. Personally a more localized approach prob should have been employed from the start.
But we actually did a lot right,. But no one like to admit that on mumsnet.

And we are opening up sensibly. And we had a very generous furlough scheme which is about as un fort as it gets but no one seems to acknowledge that either.

The harsh extended lockdowns in countries such as Spain were terrible for children’s mental health and they will have lasting problems because of it.

They fact we extended a bit late may prove to our advantage yet. There may be more natural immunity in communities. Who knows. It ain’t over yet.

I think this too. By lucky accident we may have reduced our chances of a high 2nd peak in the autumn In my hospital trust (5 hospitals) we all had antibodies tests in june. 24% had antibodies . Almost no one ill with covid right now. Could we be at almost herd immunity? Maybe. It would be great if so as this could reduce sickness in our staff in the autumn. Accident not design but could work in our favour now