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Original poster

Think the focus should shift to university

390 replies

CKBJ · 29/08/2020 20:30

I am still concerned for my children to return to school, not because I think they will become unwell but the risk of Covid entering our house where vulnerable grandparents live with us and for the teaching staff who seem to have little protection. However, not much is being said about universities opening in a few weeks and the new focus should be this.

Many, many students will be moving into halls of residence and student houses bringing together students from all over the country. Independent sage has been arguing for all courses unless they require lab/practical elements to be offered online and remotely. This won’t suit all students but does give them an option and possibly reduce the amount of students moving around the country. Fees should be reduced accordingly. As the majority of students use a student loan to pay fees, they should only be responsible for paying for say 3/4s back and the 1/4 is covered by the government therefore meaning the university doesn’t lose any funding. The government seems to find money for many other things.

I was just considering the education side but obviously there is the whole social side as well. Many cities will have an influx of students into their pubs and bars. This could put a lot of pressure on the local areas increasing the possibility of transmission.

It seems nearly every year there are outbreaks of Meningitis and other illnesses that seem to occur when students all gather together. These aren’t going away, they will still be a risk and the added risk will be Covid.

I’m grateful I my children are not heading off to university this year but do feel for those who are and their families. Anyone else have any thoughts?

OP posts:
SueEllenMishke · 31/08/2020 09:53

Could you expand on this? I don't know what decision you are referring to exactly.

I was referring to a post about the introduction of the £9k+ fees.
This was entirely a government decision and not one universities supported. It saw many universities lose up to 90% of their funding.

It's doesn't stop people ( with little or no understanding of how the HE sector works) calling universities greedy.

What it looks like to the outsider is that universities have become grossly bloated with non teaching, non researching, non revenue generating staff who now have to be paid for by huge numbers of overseas students.

Who are these non teaching, non researching, non revenue generating staff who now have to be paid for by huge numbers of overseas students you are referring to?

Professional services staff are vital to the running of a university. They genera don't teach, research or generate income but they're really important. Some universities have 'teaching' or 'research' contracts but many academics are expected to do both. As for revenue generating- that can really depend on your subject. I work in an education faculty where revenue generating can be quite difficult. My colleagues in the sciences find it easier to secure million pound research projects.

Many universities depend on overseas students just to survive- those that rely most on this income tend to be your more elite universities.

Universities don't have lots of staff sitting around being paid a fortune doing nothing - they simply can't afford it.

ItalianHat · 31/08/2020 09:56

Universities often have "classes" of roughly a school lesson size.

What do you teach, and at what sort of university, @notevenat20 ? It’d be interesting to talk about your teaching strategies if class size is what you focus on.

GCAcademic · 31/08/2020 10:04

And I’m pretty confident that many students, given the choice of a seminar or tutorial in a mask, sitting at a 2metre distance from each other with the windows open, or a well-conducted small group live on Zoom, will opt for the latter.

I agree. My teaching is all small-group discussion based seminars. I just can't see how having the group spread out across and large room and all wearing masks is going to work. We simply won't be able to hear each other. But then I don't think the learning experience is the priority for either party. Universities want students back on campus paying accommodation fees, and students want to be back for the social experience. The students that aren't so motivated by the social experience are staying at home and availing themselves of
the offer of online teaching, which imo will work better than the masked, socially-distanced seminar.

Newgirls · 31/08/2020 10:14

GCA that makes sense but I know 3 students now trying to defer. Which isn’t proving easy! The rules, lack of clubs as well as only 2-3 hours face to face (which might get cancelled) has put these young people off, who were excited just two weeks ago. Eating in halls in rows etc sounds a bit grim. So much is unknown.

They are all hoping to travel a bit instead - one has a job.

I just feel really sad for these young people who are faced with very last minute and expensive decisions to make.

ItalianHat · 31/08/2020 10:23

But you know, universities didn’t invent this virus. Nor are we in charge of public health policy in this country.

So instead of carping at university staff, you might acknowledge that we’re all in this together and universities and the staff within them , are trying to balance safety and educational fit for purpose.

It is only temporary and we’re all cautiously feeling our way.

avenueq · 31/08/2020 10:28

What about students who lack the IT equipment or the home environment to study online efficiently?

Newgirls · 31/08/2020 10:28

This is a site for parents, many of whom have been here so long the kids are off to uni. Many of us are rightly concerned about the offering from unis right now and it’s clear that there is disjointed and inconsistent info coming from unis. Do all of the uni staff on here have kids? Or are you here for other reasons?

SueEllenMishke · 31/08/2020 10:31

@avenueq

What about students who lack the IT equipment or the home environment to study online efficiently?
At my university we have laptops available for students if they need them.
Newgirls · 31/08/2020 10:31

I’m afraid I don’t get a sense of ‘in this together’ - students are very much at the bottom of the pile here. There is far more said about over 60s teaching staff. Rightly so everyone should feel safe in their work place but don’t kid yourself that this is for student benefit

SueEllenMishke · 31/08/2020 10:40

@Newgirls

This is a site for parents, many of whom have been here so long the kids are off to uni. Many of us are rightly concerned about the offering from unis right now and it’s clear that there is disjointed and inconsistent info coming from unis. Do all of the uni staff on here have kids? Or are you here for other reasons?
The thing is all universities are different which makes a consistent approach very difficult. All we can say is contact your individual university to discuss their plans. Some still won't have finalised everything as they due to the A level fiasco lots of plans have had to be changed at very short notice.

There have been a lot of threads over the last few months slagging off universities and university staff from people with little knowledge and experience of the sector. It's made us a little defensive- especially as the vast majority of university staff have been working extremely hard supporting existing students and re-redesigning courses for September.

I'm personally here for the academic support board ....

GCAcademic · 31/08/2020 10:40

@Newgirls

This is a site for parents, many of whom have been here so long the kids are off to uni. Many of us are rightly concerned about the offering from unis right now and it’s clear that there is disjointed and inconsistent info coming from unis. Do all of the uni staff on here have kids? Or are you here for other reasons?
The majority of the boards on Mumsnet have nothing to do with parenting. This board is about Coronavirus. The thread is about universities. I'd say that working in a university, and knowing what preparations are being made to make campuses Covid-secure, makes me just as qualified to post on here as someone who has a kid. Lots of people post on threads because they have knowledge of a topic rather than because they've given birth. I assume that those posting on the Legal Advice board prefer to get responses from those who are qualified to answer rather than from someone who has a kid.

If you have an issue with non-parents posting on the site, I suggest you start a thread on Site Stuff and lobby Mumsnet to verify the status of all posters.

SueEllenMishke · 31/08/2020 10:42

@Newgirls

I’m afraid I don’t get a sense of ‘in this together’ - students are very much at the bottom of the pile here. There is far more said about over 60s teaching staff. Rightly so everyone should feel safe in their work place but don’t kid yourself that this is for student benefit
You can't speak for everyone. All my planning and work over the summer has been for the benefit of my students ... to the detriment of my own health. I'm burnt out already and term hasn't even started.
avenueq · 31/08/2020 10:43

My daughter's online experience after leaving campus in March was mediocre at best, and I would be very disappointed if this was the future of her learning

SueEllenMishke · 31/08/2020 10:45

@avenueq

My daughter's online experience after leaving campus in March was mediocre at best, and I would be very disappointed if this was the future of her learning
You know that most universities moved their learning online with less than 24 hours notice? We did our best in very difficult circumstances - in my case while trying to homeschool a 5 year old.

Universities have invested significant amounts of money in systems and staff have been working hard to ensure what we're delivering in September is excellent quality.

titchy · 31/08/2020 10:49

@Newgirls

This is a site for parents, many of whom have been here so long the kids are off to uni. Many of us are rightly concerned about the offering from unis right now and it’s clear that there is disjointed and inconsistent info coming from unis. Do all of the uni staff on here have kids? Or are you here for other reasons?
I can't work out whether you have completely missed the fact that people can be both parents AND work in the university sector, or whether you think MNers should only discuss things to do with children?
avenueq · 31/08/2020 10:50

I'm a school teacher who had to move learning online as well with next to no notice. Even if it was shoddy at first I improved massively, especially after the Easter break. Not the case for my daughter. Why not?

avenueq · 31/08/2020 10:51

Same experience for the vast majority of her friends at many different universities

SueEllenMishke · 31/08/2020 11:03

@avenueq

I'm a school teacher who had to move learning online as well with next to no notice. Even if it was shoddy at first I improved massively, especially after the Easter break. Not the case for my daughter. Why not?
There are a huge number of reasons which are difficult to pin down without details.....

School is different to university so you can't really make direct comparisons.

For undergrad's the vast majority of teaching had finished by March anyway.

My personal experience was this:

  • attendance at my online sessions was woeful. I put a lot of effort into them and ran them at times the students requested yet they still didn't turn up.
  • I was expected to be available to students 24/7 and cover the information they'd missed by not attending my session on a one to one basis.
  • the amount of pastoral care I ended up doing was off the scale.
  • all students were offered extensions which impacted hugely on my workload and ability to take leave.
SueEllenMishke · 31/08/2020 11:05

was expected to be available to students 24/7 and cover the information they'd missed by not attending my session on a one to one basis.

This was a student expectation not a university one btw.....
One student couldn't understand why I would do a tutorial on a Sunday as we were in lockdown.

avenueq · 31/08/2020 11:08

Undergrad's? Seriously?

How can most teaching have finished by March when that was just a few weeks into the module.

Apart from one module no online sessions were offered.
No pastoral care either.
Assessments were scaled down massively which to me liked vastly reduced marking load.

And I'm really not a fan of the haughty "Yoy can't compare universities to schools" attitude

avenueq · 31/08/2020 11:08

"Looked not liked

Shot myself in the foot there 😬

avenueq · 31/08/2020 11:09

And you not yoy!

SueEllenMishke · 31/08/2020 11:12

@avenueq

Undergrad's? Seriously?

How can most teaching have finished by March when that was just a few weeks into the module.

Apart from one module no online sessions were offered.
No pastoral care either.
Assessments were scaled down massively which to me liked vastly reduced marking load.

And I'm really not a fan of the haughty "Yoy can't compare universities to schools" attitude

Hahaha of course you can't compare schools to universities. There is nothing haughty about that it's just a fact.

If your daughters experience was really that poor then I hope she put in a formal complaint as that would be unacceptable at my institution.

avenueq · 31/08/2020 11:14

Of course it was, why would I lie?
And as I say, not just hers.

Of course it's different but the implication seems to be that nobody can really understand how utterly complex and hard and difficult it all is, so we're not really allowed to make a judgement.

SueEllenMishke · 31/08/2020 11:18

@avenueq

Of course it was, why would I lie? And as I say, not just hers.

Of course it's different but the implication seems to be that nobody can really understand how utterly complex and hard and difficult it all is, so we're not really allowed to make a judgement.

I'm not saying you're not telling the truth but it's not you that has experienced it..... second hand information isn't always that accurate. But like I said if it really was that poor then it is worthy of a formal complaint and I'd encourage your daughter to complain as what you describe isn't acceptable at all.

Judging by your comments it's clear you don't understand what the role involves. I'm sure you don't appreciate armchair experts telling you how to do your job? I certainly don't.