Think the focus should shift to university

[CKBJ]

I am still concerned for my children to return to school, not because I think they will become unwell but the risk of Covid entering our house where vulnerable grandparents live with us and for the teaching staff who seem to have little protection. However, not much is being said about universities opening in a few weeks and the new focus should be this.

Many, many students will be moving into halls of residence and student houses bringing together students from all over the country. Independent sage has been arguing for all courses unless they require lab/practical elements to be offered online and remotely. This won’t suit all students but does give them an option and possibly reduce the amount of students moving around the country. Fees should be reduced accordingly. As the majority of students use a student loan to pay fees, they should only be responsible for paying for say 3/4s back and the 1/4 is covered by the government therefore meaning the university doesn’t lose any funding. The government seems to find money for many other things.

I was just considering the education side but obviously there is the whole social side as well. Many cities will have an influx of students into their pubs and bars. This could put a lot of pressure on the local areas increasing the possibility of transmission.

It seems nearly every year there are outbreaks of Meningitis and other illnesses that seem to occur when students all gather together. These aren’t going away, they will still be a risk and the added risk will be Covid.

I’m grateful I my children are not heading off to university this year but do feel for those who are and their families. Anyone else have any thoughts?

Wasn't it the union that was saying all this and not SAGE???

Referring to OPs original post.

Independent sage said it.

Independent SAGE said it.

Independent Sage are not scientifically respectable sadly.

gringringrin Hilarious

Can anyone explain the joke?

@notevenat20

gringringrin Hilarious

Can anyone explain the joke?

Just as one example, universities now routinely reject UK students in favour of higher paying overseas students.

I'm guessing sarcasm as this absolutely is not true.

No , what ISage aren't is respected by the government. The scientists on iSAGE have a huge array of eminent expertise.

But the comparison to care homes was from the UCU?
Students are generally a very low risk group.
Are they comparing academic staff to the vulnerable and elderly in care homes?
Seriously?
Secondary schools are reopening and - in Scotland have now been open for 3 weeks - why are universities different?

@SueEllenMishke

Could you expand on this? I don't know what decision you are referring to exactly.

I was referring to a post about the introduction of the £9k+ fees.
This was entirely a government decision and not one universities supported. It saw many universities lose up to 90% of their funding.

It's doesn't stop people ( with little or no understanding of how the HE sector works) calling universities greedy.

What it looks like to the outsider is that universities have become grossly bloated with non teaching, non researching, non revenue generating staff who now have to be paid for by huge numbers of overseas students.

Who are these non teaching, non researching, non revenue generating staff who now have to be paid for by huge numbers of overseas students you are referring to?

Professional services staff are vital to the running of a university. They genera don't teach, research or generate income but they're really important. Some universities have 'teaching' or 'research' contracts but many academics are expected to do both. As for revenue generating- that can really depend on your subject. I work in an education faculty where revenue generating can be quite difficult. My colleagues in the sciences find it easier to secure million pound research projects.

Many universities depend on overseas students just to survive- those that rely most on this income tend to be your more elite universities.

Universities don't have lots of staff sitting around being paid a fortune doing nothing - they simply can't afford it.

I'd say all teaching staff and support staff are now crucial to income. We recruit fee paying students and work hard to support and therefore retain them. Questions are asked if students drop out (even if they arrive with myriad mental health issues and we're not even allowed to interview them before they come so effectively have little control over who we recruit.)

knowledge. I'm unaware of any general 'Professional Services' professional qualification that is available

AUA have some and we’re behind the move to calling that administration side of Universities, Professional Services - to indicate the importance of the work they do and a move away from terms such as clerical officers and secretaries that typified old uni admin roles when there were still typing pools and the like.

Apart from one module no online sessions were offered.
No pastoral care either.
Assessments were scaled down massively which to me liked vastly reduced marking load.

My uni kept all pastoral services open via online provision during lockdown. I’ve done as many student appointments as normal. We got personal tutors to hold an extra meeting with our first and second years and our student reps did drop ins so students could directly approach them with concerns. We produced specific Covid comms and resources and emailed regularly. In my own subject area we continued teaching, ran exams online and did some online interviews. In fact at one stage - because people can book in meetings and not allow for travel time between rooms/buildings - we had days of back to back meetings that were exhausting.

@Gwynfluff Snap. We did all we could!

@tryingmybest13

Possibly the same place!

@gwynfluff Ah! BTW folks www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/fife/1547260/st-andrews-university-outlines-phased-approach-to-in-person-teaching/

I'm guessing sarcasm as this absolutely is not true.

It is 100% true and not at all a secret at least in the universities I know. Doesn’t your university set separate targets (meaning the number of incoming students) for “home” and full fee paying non EU students every year? They then decrease the first and increase the second when they want more money.

I would be very interested to hear of a non Oxbridge university that doesn’t do this.

@notevenat20

I'm guessing sarcasm as this absolutely is not true.

It is 100% true and not at all a secret at least in the universities I know. Doesn’t your university set separate targets (meaning the number of incoming students) for “home” and full fee paying non EU students every year? They then decrease the first and increase the second when they want more money.

I would be very interested to hear of a non Oxbridge university that doesn’t do this.

Not on my course. Nobody has ever discussed a target with me like that and I do admissions. Our target is for overall fte numbers (full time equivalent).

Not on my course. Nobody has ever discussed a target with me like that and I do admissions. Our target is for overall fte numbers (full time equivalent).

That’s very interesting. I am talking about mainstream undergraduate and masters admissions on popular degree courses at a well known Russell group university. Surely we can’t be alone. They make no attempt to keep the policy secret.

Secondary schools are reopening and - in Scotland have now been open for 3 weeks - why are universities different?

Are you really trotting out that line?

That grenade is usually lobbed at teachers so it is an interesting twist to see it passed on down the line.

Students in themselves may not be a high risk group but their age group recently has been a large part of spread , not just in the UK but pretty much worldwide. This is about repressing community spread.

I agree the care home thing appears to be hyperbole but needs to be seen in context : I think what Grady meant was that it is being overlooked as an issue.

Well we're not Russell Group so maybe it's different. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I would say students mix less with the community than pupils. Live with their peers, mix with their peers. Where they do mix with others they can socially distance.

DD off to London in October for first year uni - she is so excited to be getting out of our small town. I am just going to have to trust everything has been done to reduce risk. I am primary teacher, DH is secondary so we are all taking a risk individually but we can't go on sitting at home. I think the uni has done what it can. I hope it doesn't go to online learning because she can do that from home and I am paying a fortune for her room in halls.

I would say students mix less with the community than pupils. Live with their peers, mix with their peers. Where they do mix with others they can socially distance.

Ermmmm... many have jobs. Have you seen them on a night out??!!?

Nights out - with their peers and options restricted right now.

Jobs - protective measures apply

Not all students have a home life that allows study. 2nd & 3rd year already have housing contracts they cannot break (private landlords) and why should arts students be short changed? They already subsidise the science students! I have one of each and it's would be totally unfair if one gets to go to university and the other gets her life chances ruined (she's in final year) by covid as she relies on the additional needs provision and virtual isn't the same