Anyone else just worn down by illogic?

[CountessFrog]

Examples of completely illogical ‘roolz’ everywhere - they give me ‘rule fatigue.’ I may even have reached ‘Peak Roolz.’

For example. On holiday last week I entered a shop that apparently had a one way system. It was a small shop, and because everyone was directed left on arrival, they had crowded into a narrow area in the left, thus ensuring no social distancing.

I didn’t know about the one way system, so I noticed the crowd on the left and headed to the right of the shop to browse and stay away from people. The shop assistant shouted that I wasn’t following the one way system And I needed to join the crowd in the left (I left after that).

Second example. In same small seaside town, We were there for two weeks. On our last night we went to a chippy on the seafront that we’d used three times already. They only accepted cards. They made you queue outside, allowing one customer in at a time. Fair enough.

However On this occasion they were now ‘cash only.’ I had no cash, so I asked to place my order and go to the cash point or find DH who I knew to have cash.

They refused this. When I returned with the cash, the shop was empty so I went in. But silly me, I was still breaking ‘the roolz’ Because they had another (less obvious rule) that you couldn’t go in if they were busy doing something. So she was busy battering fish, and this meant I wasn’t allowed in. Because any fule know that’s a dangerous situation.

Ice cream shop where you had to wait outside and stand behind a line when they let you in. Couldn’t see the ice cream flavours from behind the line. Was allowed to ‘step forward two paces.’ Second time I visited, whole family in the shop, primary aged children literally licking the glass counter. No objections raised

I’m totally over the roolz. Anyone else?

@AlecTrevelyan006

life has become joyless and miserable for most people but as long as just one life is saved then it will have been worth it

apparently

@@AlecTrevelyan006 this sums it up.

It made more sense when it was just basic common sense- keep a distance and wash hands.

Totally agree with this. Many of the “rules” are pointless and counter-productive.

Can't meet a group of mum friends in the park as over two households, but can book into soft play with numerous other family's.

Our local dentist insists that all children 2 and over wear masks for the 20 second walk from the main entrance to the room where the appt takes place. The corridor where the mask has to be worn is always kept deserted (a separate rule altogether!) and the child obviously doesn't wear the mask for the appointment itself. Completely pointless!!! And bound to put plenty of parents off bringing their young children for check-ups altogether.

@Pixel7777

In the 1960s there was an Asian flu pandemic, similar stats to this one looking at the latest info from Spain in terms of mortality etc

I know this isn’t the point of the thread, but doesn’t that just demonstrate the Covid is more deadly, as it has killed as many people despite the lockdowns, social distancing, shielding etc., and presumably would have doubtless killed many, many more of we’d done nothing (though not including the measures outlined on this thread which largely seem pointless).

Soft plays are re-opening yet my local baby gym (which is essentially the same as a soft play) isn't 'due to government guidelines'.

The nonsensical variety of what isn't allowed at weddings is another one! At some register offices it's masks for all guests and maximum 6 (yes, 6!) guests whereas other venues are allowing 30 and no masks.

Ffs when will the madness end?!??

sorry we can't do marshmallow toppings because of Covid"

Just crazy

[quote Derbygerbil]@Pixel7777

In the 1960s there was an Asian flu pandemic, similar stats to this one looking at the latest info from Spain in terms of mortality etc

I know this isn’t the point of the thread, but doesn’t that just demonstrate the Covid is more deadly, as it has killed as many people despite the lockdowns, social distancing, shielding etc., and presumably would have doubtless killed many, many more of we’d done nothing (though not including the measures outlined on this thread which largely seem pointless).[/quote]
It depends on the stats you are looking at. Has it killed the same absolute number of people, or has it killed the same proportion of people who catch it (infection fatality rate)?
Once you've caught the virus, other people social distancing makes no difference to how dangerous it is to you.

We stayed in a Premier Inn this week - rules, arrows, no in room phones so you rang from your mobile, if you wanted anything it was bagged and left outside the room, hand sanitiser etc everywhere.

At breakfast they plated the buffet for you, brought every single thing, had 1 way system round the restaurant.

Took dd to the loo and the cleaner was using the same red cloth to clean loos and sinks (and she didn't leave the loos til last!). Fucking waste of time doing everything else.

My children have been put on a totally different school bus despite going to the same place
I wonder how many other siblings have this. Extending the bubbles. No social distancing is to be enforced on school bus.

Makes sense.

Marshmallows are a potential chocking hazard, maybe banned as can't do a 2m heimlich. Has anyone seen grapes and hotdogs banned for covid?

Can't have a playdate or meet up with any school friends as in lockdown area, but next week they'll be in school together.

On holiday, parking at a small private car park with an attendant, she only took cash. Went up with a note, I had to place it under a pebble which she then retrieved the note and put the change and ticket on the table. This meant that everyone with a note touched the pebble which she then touched, making it a bit of a hot spot. She also asked me to move back from my own husband.

Took dd to the loo and the cleaner was using the same red cloth to clean loos and sinks (and she didn't leave the loos til last!). Fucking waste of time doing everything else.

Ewwww

Ikea making you go round the whole store mingling with people when I just want to go straight to an aisle in the warehouse.

That’s not a COVID thing, it’s how the stores were originally designed. Each IKEA has a discreet door or corridor that leads from the main entrance directly to the warehouse, so you can avoid going round the shop floor.

I know this isn’t the point of the thread, but doesn’t that just demonstrate the Covid is more deadly, as it has killed as many people despite the lockdowns, social distancing, shielding etc., and presumably would have doubtless killed many, many more of we’d done nothing (though not including the measures outlined on this thread which largely seem pointless).

How do we know that covid has killed more people?

Some interesting comments already on this thread about subjectivity and knowledge. Going a bit further...

In the 1960s, it wouldn't have been possible to sequence the DNA of the virus at all. (Even in the 90s, I think this would have taken much longer. In fact, it had been done by the end of Jan.) Without that, Covid-19 wouldn't have been seen a 'thing', it would just have been an illness with multiple, not always occurring symptoms that looks like a lot of other illnesses.

Even in the early 80s, it wouldn't have been possible to test people for the virus. PCR testing was discovered then. (I don't know how long it actually took to become affordable and widespread.) So even if the virus had its genetic code isolated, we wouldn't have been able to tell if a patient had it.

There would have been much less spread of knowledge across the world. The experiences of intensive care doctors in Bergamo night have made it into an article in the Lancet, perhaps The Times would even have run a piece on the nasty flu season in Italy. But no one would necessarily have thought to put it together with the nasty flu season here that hadn't yet started.

(Whether people actually made fewer air trips across continents in the 60s I'm not sure; but probably the rate of spread would have been slower.)

Without the internet, almost no one could have worked from home. A small number might have been able to work on independent projects (e.g. architects working on plans) and communicated a few times a day by phone. I couldn't have taught my classes by phone.

(Writing this reminds me how absurd it is that GPs are still only doing phone consultations, because a GP needs in many cases to take a temperature, look at a rash, notice symptoms that the patient hasn't.)

In other words, this entire illness is real, but also an artefact of the 21c century. Even a few decades ago, it would have been invisible and, even if it hadn't been (say if it had a really unique symptom like an orange rash across the forehead), it would still have been impossible to do much to avoid it without total societal collapse in the short-term.

@boltzmannbrains

Ikea making you go round the whole store mingling with people when I just want to go straight to an aisle in the warehouse.

That’s not a COVID thing, it’s how the stores were originally designed. Each IKEA has a discreet door or corridor that leads from the main entrance directly to the warehouse, so you can avoid going round the shop floor.

In my IKEA these corridor shortcuts are closed off which is what I imagine the previous poster was referring to. Therefore you cant skip any of the store you have to go through every single section.

@boltzmannbrains I think the ikea point is the fact that you can no longer sneak through those shortcuts.

Our local one has an entrance to the marketplace on the ground floor where you enter the store. However, you aren't allowed to use it and instead have to do the whole upper showroom to get to it.

It confuses me that I can go to a pub or restaurant and not wear a mask, sitting in a closed room with and using the same toilets as 30 strangers. Yet I shouldn’t hug my mum, who doesn’t work and is extremely careful about distancing and hygiene.

Must be a one-off, none of my local IKEAS have that.

That’s the problem, isn’t it? Individual stores/people making up their own rules.

*@Pixel7777

In the 1960s there was an Asian flu pandemic, similar stats to this one looking at the latest info from Spain in terms of mortality etc

I know this isn’t the point of the thread, but doesn’t that just demonstrate the Covid is more deadly, as it has killed as many people despite the lockdowns, social distancing, shielding etc., and presumably would have doubtless killed many, many more of we’d done nothing (though not including the measures outlined on this thread which largely seem pointless)*

I see what you mean, but apparently they did close schools... (children were more at risk from the Asian flu) and would they have counted very elderly people with underlying conditions who were about to die anyway? I doubt it. It seems to have the similar mortality rate as mentioned in Spain recently now they are taking into account more testing.

This might be of interest: (asian flu)

"...the core group of main sufferers was aged 5–39 years with 49% between 5–14 years. In London, 110 000 children were off school suspected of having influenza. With adults there was usually a connection to children; for example, parents, teachers, doctors, or a closed group such as the armed forces and football teams. As the Manchester Guardian put it: ‘Fit Go Down with Flu’ (20th August). There was also a rise in influenzal deaths in January 1958 of an older age group but it was not clear how much of this was the usual seasonal deaths attributed to influenza as opposed to Asian flu."

bjgp.org/content/59/565/622

"...also with factories, offices and mines closed the economy was hit: ‘Setback in Production — “Recession through Influenza”’ (Manchester Guardian, 29 November)."

Makes me feel fortunate we have covid instead then, given the children affected by that one.

The start of it all was worse than now. Local Tesco tyat I go into every morning was stupid. Day before lockdown things were totally normal - I'd go in at the same time as their main delivery at 7.15am. Few other customers in there, lots of crates and trolleys being moved around, employees pushing past you, touching you as they went etc. Women on till learned over to get something from my bag. Pretty friendly and normal from all.

Day of lockdown, I'm on way to school as usual. Get shouted at for not waiting on line outside shop even though no one is in the shop, one way system makes no sense and is a route to nowhere- doesnt stop at till, stops by the bread- erm?!, I didn't wait at the appropriate place, even though no info given about appropriate place, stood 2m away from till after I'd put my stuff down, but told to stand back by extremely grumpy employee. I didn't go there for the rest of lockdown.

Last week was in there, illogical one way system leaves you at the bread still. Tills have perspex boxes around them, I was wearing a mask. Was standing a metre away from the counter, but woman behind perspex, who was also wearing a mask, asked me to take a step back. Am I Mr Fucking Tickle? Inspector Gadget? Not sure how I'm supposed to pick up the 3 things I'm trying to buy.

I totally get Covid and how it transmits and the risks.

I get that there are things we must do and I'm glad we are doing them because if we didn't this would be out of control globally (even more so than we've seen)

But yes! The illogic of some things just makes no sense and I think it's what risks a) people giving up which would be risky and b) adds to what we're seeing with society turning on each other for perceived indiscretions.

One way system in shopping centres, distancing, Hans santiser, masks. Fair enough they are great preventative measures.

But when it's not combined with common sense such as 'keep walking' or walk around people if it's keeps a distance etc it becomes a rule for sale of a rule rather than a rule to keep up distancing.

Sounds from listening to people working in all sectors (great post above highlighting this) that actually it's the guidance not being clear enough.

So either the government needs to give specific guidance or they need to outline what you can't do and allow people to do what they can do within their own setting.

Me and my friend had a huge giggle the other week in local village outlet. Really well organised one way system. Plenty of room everyone could move quite freely within the guidance.
Then all the spots outside shops for queuing went the opposite way to the one way - so you walked past shop entrance, then queues facing all the people coming towards you. 🤦🏼‍♀️

I've found my people

I'm struggling to understand the roolz about wearing face masks on corridors in schools. Does anyone seriously expect teenagers to store a mask properly during lessons? It's going to be stuffed into pockets, bags, pencil cases etc. But that's much healthier than not wearing one - apparently.

When track and trace started the roolz were clearly stated that you only need to report people you've been in close contact with for more than 15 minutes. Passing someone in a shop is not considered a risk. But we have to wear masks to pass people briefly in shops but not to sit and chat with them in a coffee shop or at work.

It's time the government stopped following The Science as there are many different views from scientists. They should follow the maths which is exact. Of the whole UK population, only 0.49% have tested positive, 0.2% have been to hospital and 0.06% have died. Compare that to Sweden (no lockdown just guidelines on hand washing and social distancing) where 0.85% tested positive and 0.05% have died (less than UK).