if so many people are about to be made redundant in the country, why can't experienced individuals be fast tracked as teachers?

[elmouno]

Yes, I know teachers require different types of certification. But in these pressing times, if we have people being made redundant in every industry, why can't they be placed as extra teachers so we can get class sizes smaller? For example, if someone is already a scientist with work experience in biology, chemistry, etc surely they will be able to teach it at secondary level? Redundant IT engineers could teach what's relevant now in tech? HR or former project managers could teach English? Bankers teaching certain maths? I don't know but I think it is really important that we get more teachers (of course they would have to pass a background check). I mean perhaps we need to get more creative with curriculum and scrap the tests for now? Perhaps children who want to get into certain universities can take a SAT test like they do in America?

It just seems a shame that we have so many people being made redundant and we have such a pressing need to make more bubbles. Large bubbles imo, won't work. What will happen to keyworkers when their bubbles pop? It doesn't make sense to me. The only answer is to build more schools and have more teachers.

This has got to be a wind up.

Any idiot knows that Teaching is 2% knowledge of subject, 98% getting the little shits to sit down and shut up long enough to actually take in something.

I know of some incredibly intelligent people who can’t make themselves understood for love nor money; and I also know people who (bless ‘em) weren’t exactly stellar students; but who are now amazing teachers who are inspiring and engaging.

Let's say this would work. Let's be deluded enough that schools would get loads of extra money from the gvnmt (you know the extra funding for COVID? LA's already found ways to go around that and refuse to pay schools).

Where would you get the extra premises from? Where would the actual physical classes come from?

I think we need tradesmen and the like going into schools and teaching some actual skills. Skills that are very much required in this country. I'm laughing at the precious English teacher comments - romantic literature, jeez give me strength.

I certainly agree that it takes more than a few weeks practice to be a good teacher - and good teachers are what we are going to need next year to close the gap.

But before we completely rip the OP a new one - how about considering more childcare workers and use public buildings, therefore allowing teachers to work with smaller classes? Honestly, there would be very little difference in the results achieved - I'm betting they'd even go up with smaller classes and half the teaching time.

There could be a fast track to a supervisory childcare / play worker role surely? There is already good training going on in after school clubs. And the hours would suit people with children at school, as they'd be school hours. Problem is, it would cost too much.

Perhaps the teachers who are there could be given training responsibility, and be given raises?

We already have those responsibilities, but don't get paid extra for it.

The thing is, the reason things are so bad for teachers is because they are being overwhelmed. We need more teachers so class sizes and bubbles can be smaller. Parents need to put pressure on this so that they can feel safe sending their children in and quality of life can be better overall for teachers. Honestly it's not trying to offend, just seeing two problems (bad economy and lack of teachers).

Teachers need to be treated better as well. There is the money imo, when there is money for silly things like giving everyone a tenner for Wagamama or whatever. We have money to hire teachers, it's simply ideology that is stopping it. And anyways, those people made redundant will have to be paid via universal credit anyways. Train them to be teachers so bubbles can be smaller, people can work and the economy isn't threatened anymore.

It won't solve the issue for next week unfortunately. One year training of you have a degree, then an nqt year before you're a qualified teacher.

Yes but can they actually teach? You do realise the qualification is all about how to teach and child pedagogy, not how you know your subject.

I imagine very few of the engineers etc out there would want to halve their pay for a job with high stress and low job satisfaction, for a start. It's not like flipping burgers, where you can pack it in when a better job comes along. It's a commitment to the school and the pupils.

That's before you consider if they would be capable.

Halving their pay?! It would be more like a third, surely?

I agree we are overwhelmed . We don't need to be overwhelmed further by a whole swathe of new fast track trainees to take up our time and energy, to be honest.

Well the OP is correct, we do need good people. Unfortunately this government has no will to create the space or funding for smaller class sizes.
In my experience, getting people to sign up to training is actually ok. Bursaries help in some subjects. However of the last 6 trainees we had in our department, only 2 actually started teaching, and one of them did two years before leaving. That's the issue.

What do you do for a living OP? I don’t think you’ve answered that question yet.

It’s not easy turning to teaching and it doesn’t suit everyone so you cant just assume they can turn to teaching without the relevant qualifications

In addition most schools are at capacity anyway with classes of 30, so where exactly would the smaller classes be held?

Yes we are expecting a lot of redundancies but the affected sectors are the arts, hospitality etc principally. And I have 2 teacher friends struggling to find jobs because the schools aren't hiring.

I had an accomplished engineer on placement with me. He was doing his PGCE in Design Technology. He was meant to be with me for 12 weeks, but lasted 2 (with multiple sick days).

‘Teaching kids’ is the skill. The subject knowledge is not the most important thing. I have taught across many subjects, sometimes being only a lesson or two ahead of the children. But I am a passionate educator, with good behaviour management skills; ability to build a rapport with young people; good understanding of assessment techniques and application of criteria; never ending patience and creativity.

Teaching is a lot more emotionally and physically demanding than people think. I think the statistics showing how many student teachers make it into teaching are quite poor, as are the statistics of newly qualified teachers who stay longer than a few years.

All that money to study and they give up? There’s a reason for that.

All the unemployed builders and plumbers could build all the new classrooms required for all the new teachers ? Then there's the unemployed crestaurant workers, get a job as a dinner lady.

The really great part is that the nations parents have just had 5 months teaching practice educating their own kids at home.

I can see you've really thought this out.

Perhaps the teachers who are there could be given training responsibility, and be given raises?

Pahaha!
I train at least 3 student teachers every year and I don’t even get extra time let alone extra money.

Why can't a redundant waitress become a dinner lady? Why have we put so many barriers up when it comes to employment? We need to think of what people did in history, without a million skills requirements, let people learn on the job and stop being so resistant to change. If people take the job, but find they can't do it, what is the problem? Benefits defer a bit? Some of them will be able to do it. We could take teenagers who have left school and not force them to go to university, they could get jobs just helping at new primaries. We'll have the buildings, since there are so many businesses that will shut soon.

OP reading your past post I now think you're having a joke with us all.

If not then you are massively unreasonable and are talking utter rubbish.

@elmouno

Why can't a redundant waitress become a dinner lady? Why have we put so many barriers up when it comes to employment? We need to think of what people did in history, without a million skills requirements, let people learn on the job and stop being so resistant to change. If people take the job, but find they can't do it, what is the problem? Benefits defer a bit? Some of them will be able to do it. We could take teenagers who have left school and not force them to go to university, they could get jobs just helping at new primaries. We'll have the buildings, since there are so many businesses that will shut soon.

You do realise that lunch time supervisors work around 1.5 hours a day on minimum wage. Lots of schools don’t even have them as teaching staff and TAs supervise lunches.

Halving their pay?! It would be more like a third, surely?

I've been a teacher since 2008. I was a civil engineer before. After 12 years experience, and taking on significant extra non-teaching skill set stuff, I now earn half of what I earned in my last engineering job. I don't get a company car now, or a bonus, either.

Training a teacher who doesn't have experience takes a year. During that time, they have to demonstrate competence in the teaching standards. In order to do that, they will be team teaching for a lot of the first placement, working alongside experienced colleagues and trained mentors. Being a scientist or an HR officer or "real world" experience doesn't necessarily make a good teacher.
I usually offer 12 placements a year in my school. This year, we are offering none. We can't have additional adults in our classrooms.
Good teachers make it look easy, but the step from wanting to teach to being able to teach is a big one.

Then we need to overhaul the system. There are going to be far too many unemployed people and the bubbles will pop, as they pop we will be put in to stricter lockdown and the economy will get worse.

For example Debenhams is closing, government could put a new school in the building. Get some builders to adjust it for purpose. Be creative and make it safe, otherwise the economy will collapse.

For example Debenhams is closing, government could put a new school in the building.

That's got to be one of the most delusional things i've ever read on MN.