Parents are the blockage at schools re-opening, not teaching unions

[noblegiraffe]

The government has spent months demonising teaching unions and blaming them for blocking schools re-opening, including in June when it was actually the government’s own guidelines that prevented the further re-opening of primary schools.

This has left them in a bit of a pickle because schools are re-opening in September, the unions aren’t blocking it, there are no plans for teacher strikes, but the latest survey data from the ONS says that only 90% of parents are fairly or very likely to send their kids back. If the data is similar to back in June, better off parents are more likely to send their kids back, and more disadvantaged families are less likely.

So the government are now running a campaign aimed at parents, putting out articles across all newspapers. The Chief Medical Officers have dutifully said that schools are safe. And the responses are ‘see, schools need to reopen, our kids are being thrown under the bus’. The message is being read the wrong way. It’s being read as being targeted at teachers and unions who it is supposed are stopping schools opening, and not at parents who don’t want to send their kids back.

And this is the government’s fault. Because they have spent months creating a fake war, they have dropped the ball on a real issue - creating safer schools that parents are happy to send their kids back to.

So you want teachers to join in with pretending school is safe in order to persuade parents to send vulnerable kids into an unsafe environment?

What makes you think it’s safe? What makes you think a bit of hand gel and a one way system protects teenagers and staff from a pandemic?

I can’t reassure parents schools will be safe because they won’t be. The decision being made is that the risk is worth taking. Many will agree, others will have different risk factors and weigh things up differently.

What makes you think I believe that someone who is clinically vulnerable should go back into the classroom?

Because that’s what the government is telling them to do? And you appear to think that teachers should be quiet about it?

@itsgettingweird

Thunder or maybe parents have realised for themselves rooms of 30 children for 6-7 hours a day in one room, with little to no ventilation, no PPE and minimal social distancing is possibly not the safest return.

This maybe because those same child are having to SD, wear masks and Athens places with limited numbers currently whilst in their parents care.

Nothing has changed. Give parents credit for having brains if their own and being able to make the known decisions on what they feel is safe.

Maybe they have - but 90% clearly think it is safe (or safe enough) and so are happy to do so.

Those that aren't happy will have made their minds up based on the information they have been given, from the scientists maybe, but I believe also from the unions and teachers that even now claim it's unsafe.

My point is - this post started by saying it's parents who are blocking the return to school - and those parents imo have been influenced by many things, including (but not limited to) the unions and teachers claims around safety.

@TheHoneyBadger

So you want teachers to join in with pretending school is safe in order to persuade parents to send vulnerable kids into an unsafe environment?

What makes you think it’s safe? What makes you think a bit of hand gel and a one way system protects teenagers and staff from a pandemic?

I can’t reassure parents schools will be safe because they won’t be. The decision being made is that the risk is worth taking. Many will agree, others will have different risk factors and weigh things up differently.

I don't want anyone to pretend anything. I believe everyone is entitled to come to their own decisions. If you don't think it's safe to send your kids to school or for you to teach, why would you pretend?

@noblegiraffe

What makes you think I believe that someone who is clinically vulnerable should go back into the classroom?

Because that’s what the government is telling them to do? And you appear to think that teachers should be quiet about it?

Your making a bit of a leap there from my original statement!

One of my kids asked his friend's mum if his friend would be going back and she said "Yes of course." He said "it's good that you're not worried" and she said "What d'you mean?"

He said it was really awkward, and he'll probably never ever try to make conversation with a parent ever again. Ever.

But my point is maybe some parents haven't thought about it yet? Or are a bit unconcerned generally? Or I dunno? You'd have to live under a rock not to have some concerns surely?

So you agree that it’s appalling that the government are sending clinically vulnerable teachers back into unsafe classrooms and that teachers shouldn’t have to pretend to be happy about it?

And what about clinically vulnerable students who the government has told their parents they will be fined if they don’t go in?

In real life i no nobody that is concerned with sending there kids bacK ?

I just can't join in with the pretending that it's safe.

Lying to children is not my style and neither is denial of reality.

It's just not in me.

@noblegiraffe

So you agree that it’s appalling that the government are sending clinically vulnerable teachers back into unsafe classrooms and that teachers shouldn’t have to pretend to be happy about it?

And what about clinically vulnerable students who the government has told their parents they will be fined if they don’t go in?

Can you tell me as a percentage how many teachers in the teaching population are considered clinically vulnerable, and the same for the students. That would help me form an opinion better I think.

Thunder so you think that parents have been influenced by the science?

Would that be the same science that's influencing teachers and unions?

Parents are more than able to listen to government, media, teachers, unions, scientists and other parents and make decisions based on that.

We are all getting the same information.

A good friend of mine was staggered to learn last week (from me, I confess) that pupils in school will not be socially distanced. She is generally very clued-up!

Lots of people will trust what they see and read in the media.

@Notfeelinggreattoday

In real life i no nobody that is concerned with sending there kids bacK ?

I know a few with ideological blind spots who seize on every positive

"Chris Whitty says it's safe!"
^
"Hardly any children caught it back when hardly any children were in school"
^
But almost nobody who doesn't have concerns.

Also around here loads of kids are mixing with friends , parks are full , beaches are full so if any of these parents are worried about sending kids back i will be surprised as they are happy for then to be playing with 20 plus kids in the park .
I think schools we see a rise in cases and can see shutdowns etc , but my understanding is schools have been told to prepare for this
I don't know why he doesnt just say masks in schools ( despite me thinking there not full proof when worn all day ) as thats about all other some other countries appear to be doing differently and going back without loads of parents or teachers complaining
Local sports clubs have gone back around here and attendance has been good , i expect schools will be at least to start with too

I think as more schools close people will start to wake up and smell the coffee, even if it just to worry about how they are going to manage childcare and work.

@ChavvySexPond well i can speak from my experience and you speak from yours , none of my friends are not sending there kids back and are all happy with how schools are handling it here , we have low case numbers so this may make a difference .

@itsgettingweird

Thunder so you think that parents have been influenced by the science?

Would that be the same science that's influencing teachers and unions?

Parents are more than able to listen to government, media, teachers, unions, scientists and other parents and make decisions based on that.

We are all getting the same information.

Yep and I think we all interpret things to suit our own narrative. So as I said right at the beginning- those parents who are already anxious will continue to see stuff and remember comments that are negative around school safety and that will prevent them from sending their kids in.

Don't get me wrong we all expect to see school closuress etc as normal bugs will be around as well so as soon as coughs and temps happen people incl teachers will self isolate so all of us are expecting disruption and are prepared for schools closing , luckily mine are older ao have no childcare issues but ds is year 11 and i do worry that if he misses anymore , exams next year will be too much

I'm happy for my kids to be playing in parks. It's outside, we use handgel.
More and more the evidence is pointing to transmission happens in enclosed crowded poorly ventilated spaces. Ie classrooms.
Outside is not a problem.
Primary I'm not so worried about as they will have them outside as much as possible, they all have outside doors they can prop open, and they can genuinely bubble for a class. Although it's not as good as in June I think it's reasonable.
Secondary is another matter entirely.

@chavvysexpond
So probably not concerned was wrong word, what I meant was in real life i havent got any friends or family who are't sending their children in to start with but all expecting disruption

@WhyNotMe40 but propping doors open in october / november won't be a possibility
I think winter will be challenging even for primaries , although a lot easier to keep bubbles compared to secondaries but how i see it the kids have to go back and we have to try
In an ideal world we would have loads of teachers and empty classrooms to split to smaller bubbles but the reality is we don't
I have secondary kids so bubble is year groups so quite large but not as large as some , but really hard to have smaller as all different subjects
i don't know what other schools in europe are doing other than facemasks in some instances ?

[quote Notfeelinggreattoday]@WhyNotMe40 but propping doors open in october / november won't be a possibility
I think winter will be challenging even for primaries , although a lot easier to keep bubbles compared to secondaries but how i see it the kids have to go back and we have to try
In an ideal world we would have loads of teachers and empty classrooms to split to smaller bubbles but the reality is we don't
I have secondary kids so bubble is year groups so quite large but not as large as some , but really hard to have smaller as all different subjects
i don't know what other schools in europe are doing other than facemasks in some instances ?[/quote]
Ah I'm not going to worry about October or November yet. The guidance will have changed at least 3 times by then and schools will be closing all over the place due to lack of mitigations and funding for mitigations...

So it’s not the pandemic that has killed tens of thousands of people that makes people concerned about safety? It’s the messaging?

Positive thinking isn’t a particularly effective infection control as far as I’m aware. It is a handy psychological defense against cognitive dissonance though. Such as trying to balance out strongly held beliefs with facts that contradict them eg I love my child and would fight to the death to protect them and my kid is going to be shoved in with 1500 kids with no protection in a pandemic. The former needs to be defended no matter what so you either choose not to send them or you chant soothing mantras like schools are safe, children can’t catch it etc.

Or you face the discomfort and realistically accept you are choosing to take that risk because you’ve decided it’s worth it etc.

I feel the people needing to trivialise the risks and shout at anyone who disagrees with them and repeat false facts are probably really really averse to dealing with cognitive dissonance and very angry when others say anything that challenges their denial.

I’m sending my son back and I’m going back. I know it won’t be safe and we won’t be able to spend time with my parents anymore. I doubt I or ds would die from covid but my parents I’m not so sure about.

@Notfeelinggreattoday

Don't get me wrong we all expect to see school closuress etc as normal bugs will be around as well so as soon as coughs and temps happen people incl teachers will self isolate so all of us are expecting disruption and are prepared for schools closing , luckily mine are older ao have no childcare issues but ds is year 11 and i do worry that if he misses anymore , exams next year will be too much

It is important for exam classes to rock up with their game faces on. Every piece of work they do could provide evidence to support teacher assessment. So every test and mock needs to be treated like the real thing.

Why have Chris Whitty and Boris Johnson been wheeled out to encourage parents to send their children back to school if 90% are planning to do so anyway???