Parents are the blockage at schools re-opening, not teaching unions

[noblegiraffe]

The government has spent months demonising teaching unions and blaming them for blocking schools re-opening, including in June when it was actually the government’s own guidelines that prevented the further re-opening of primary schools.

This has left them in a bit of a pickle because schools are re-opening in September, the unions aren’t blocking it, there are no plans for teacher strikes, but the latest survey data from the ONS says that only 90% of parents are fairly or very likely to send their kids back. If the data is similar to back in June, better off parents are more likely to send their kids back, and more disadvantaged families are less likely.

So the government are now running a campaign aimed at parents, putting out articles across all newspapers. The Chief Medical Officers have dutifully said that schools are safe. And the responses are ‘see, schools need to reopen, our kids are being thrown under the bus’. The message is being read the wrong way. It’s being read as being targeted at teachers and unions who it is supposed are stopping schools opening, and not at parents who don’t want to send their kids back.

And this is the government’s fault. Because they have spent months creating a fake war, they have dropped the ball on a real issue - creating safer schools that parents are happy to send their kids back to.

It does sound damning I must have worked particularly forward companies, I’ve sat at so many tables with cultures from round the world, I do actually feel lucky, maybe it’s rarer than I thought. I’m woeful at languages (despite being somewhat French)

Anyway it takes a lot to get to business fluency. European countries have the advantage of proximity. Family is tri-lingual, due to parentage. It’s hard to get that fluency. How much could a British school do so we speak well enough in a meeting? (I bet everyone reverts to English).

Btw what would your ideal set up be for languages?

@MarshaBradyo

Btw what would your ideal set up be for languages?

I don't know, I am not a languages person. It will be a choice of spending money of course.

I also work in a very multicultural field, but I still see how it holds us back, because UK people don't go overseas so freely as others come here. Which means UK people are comparatively inexperienced.

Also in newer markets it is a real barrier, things that involve producers or growers who maybe don't have strong English.

My view is the reliance on the fact others speak English gets us so far - but is also the thing that holds us back from getting further.

Pretty hard to get languages jobs here. The language specialists I knew worked overseas and struggled to find employment here because overseas companies all had departments of native English or fluent speakers in their companies.

My sister is a legal translator who worked for an international company in Paris for about 15 years and struggled to find the same or similar work in the UK. She picks up odds and ends freelance but has basically had to respecialise.

Several of her peers became mfl teachers when they returned to the UK as they couldn’t find employment in the business fields they were experienced in.

Regarding languages. I’m currently an MFL teacher. Mainly as stated above, I found it very difficult to find a job as a translator/proofreader etc. despite being fluent in French, German and Spanish.

I find it very very exhausting to inspire the children in this country to learn another language. Maybe 2/3 in a class of thirty will continue to ALevel and Uni.

I have this brilliant PowerPoint that I whip out about all the benefits of learning another language but I usually get ‘I don’t care, everybody speaks English anyways, I‘m never going to leave U.K., I hate everything French/German.’

I honestly believe languages at school need to be reviewed in it’s entirety or become elective (optional). Kinda like ‘shit or get off the pot’.

*2 or 3 pupils in a class - not 2/3. That would be a success if it were the case!

I honestly believe languages at school need to be reviewed in it’s entirety or become elective (optional). Kinda like ‘shit or get off the pot’.

I agree they need reviewing but it seems so self-defeating to allow us to get even worse, nationally, when we know it is costing us so much as a country in terms of lost GDP.

We need a long term strategy I guess.

Unlikely to happen.

Kingsley yep I agree somewhat with your last line. We sort of suffer through languages a lot of the time. Then in a European country it will be in the home and obviously take up is different and fluency means as an employer if you need bilingual you’d go for that..

I grew up in Aus we are probably even worse than U.K. although closer to SE Asia which has small impact - friends learnt Japanese, I stuck with French. Equally you can stick at it for years and get good marks and generally be pretty bad in adulthood (me anyway).

Although I see what Lattice means too about getting worse. Ds would love to drop French but he has to soldier on.

@latticechaos

I honestly believe languages at school need to be reviewed in it’s entirety or become elective (optional). Kinda like ‘shit or get off the pot’.

I agree they need reviewing but it seems so self-defeating to allow us to get even worse, nationally, when we know it is costing us so much as a country in terms of lost GDP.

We need a long term strategy I guess.

Unlikely to happen.

Yes, a major shake up.

Only the very bright, those with parents that have studied the Oxbridge syllabus will continue. The average child doesn’t plan that far ahead. Most year 7s want to be YouTube influencers!

In my sixth form, I averaged 5 pupils per language and these pupils were aiming for big unis that liked prospective students to have a language under their belts.

If you are mathematically /scientifically inclined mostly you just want to concentrate on that. School became a much better place when you narrowed the focus imo and I see it with ds.

When you say language for University do you mean A level language? Can you not narrow down to do science / maths for eg for that type of degree?

That was to Kingsley

Actually goes back a bit to gap between sectors. Universities should recognise difference between state and private wrt languages and not create barriers.

@latticechaos - the UK is poor at teaching languages. Not really recognised as to how important they are. We’re a UK based trilingual family. We put our DT’s in an outstanding state primary school but moved them after a term to an international school as there wasn’t the provision for languages we were assured existed.

DD has just graduated in languages and about to start work for the EU. Employers still want employees who can talk to their customers around the world and not expect the conversation and documents to be in English.

You can drop languages at the end of year 8 at our school. I was surprised, ds was ecstatic and I dare say his Spanish teacher is too.

It does mean you can do 2 humanities or an extra d&t type subject.

I think we underestimate how different language learning is in other European countries and not just because of school. English language music and film etc is everywhere and provides a motivation for young people or people live near borders of two languages etc. I had a Belgian boyfriend who grew up speaking Flemish at home and French at school, easily picked up Dutch and German and by the time I met him overseas he was fluent in 8 and proficient in several others and just basically programmed for language acquisition.

It’s not just about school and you can’t expect kids to learn languages just from school lessons.

It’s not just about school and you can’t expect kids to learn languages just from school lessons.

My view is it is an entrenched cultural issue and the lack of take up in schools is a symptom. Schools are not to blame but would be part of a solution. But it would require investment, so never gonna happen!

At least one foreign language should be taught as compulsory from Reception and at least one language taken at GCSE.

@Parker231

The UK has never meaningfully done languages in primary, although it got talked about a lot. We should do more at a younger age, I agree.

Why force teenagers to take a gcse in something they are awful at and have no interest in and will not use in their everyday life when they could instead study an area of interest?

We have maths, science and English as core already with very little room for real options. Making it even less flexible is not a good idea imo.

If you have kids who struggle with literacy in their own language forcing a foreign language on them to (at the expense of them being able to pick a practical subject they have affinity for and is more fitting for their career interests) is madness really and rather cruel.

@TheHoneyBadger

This is why we need a long term strategy. I don't think compulsory GCSE is the answer, but over twenty years we could change things. Proper efforts to sell the value of languages, more time in primary, more investment generally.

The answer is not making it compulsory for exams, that'll just make it worse I reckon. But it'd be beneficial for Britain and for individuals if the situation was improved I think.

Languages are a key skill - you shouldn’t expect everyone to talk to you in English.

@MarshaBradyo

If you are mathematically /scientifically inclined mostly you just want to concentrate on that. School became a much better place when you narrowed the focus imo and I see it with ds.

When you say language for University do you mean A level language? Can you not narrow down to do science / maths for eg for that type of degree?

Many top unis want the students to have at ALevel in a language. My sixth form kids are studying engineering, English, etc but to get into top school if you have a language your odds of being offered a place trumps (god I hate using that word nowadays!) those who don’t have one.

I’ve been bilingual since birth( French and English)my parents are from different countries and cultures, my husband is English but I’m not, I studied Spanish and German at College and Uni, so I come from a place of acceptance. Unfortunately (many will disagree) the Uk is ethnocentric, unilingual and Protestant.

This is actually not all negative or me being rude or passive aggressive. It’s just the way it is. My kids like languages because they see their mother German reading books, watching TV5 and listening to Celine Dion BEFORE she sang in English. Parents are the main force for children accepting different languages and cultures and if they can’t be arsed - their kids won’t!

** apologies for typos/grammar. I’m watching Housewives of NYC on Hulu as I type. Yes, I am an intellectual.

Languages are a key skill - you shouldn’t expect everyone to talk to you in English.

There are hundreds of languages in the world. Should we learn all of them? Even if you become completely fluent in one or twosay, Spanish or Frenchyou'll still wind up in the same situation (i.e. being reliant on the other person to speak English to you) the moment you have to talk to someone who speaks Czech or Korean or Latvian or Mongolian or any of the other hundreds of languages in the world that aren't Spanish or French.

Incidentally, what do you think happens when a Czech meets a Korean, or a Latvian meets a Mongolian? Well, they speak in English. They don't learn hundreds of languages either. English is a lingua franca.

I am a permanent resident in Japan and speak the language pretty fluently, but LIVING in a place is different. Most people won't live in another country. And the number of people I know who earnestly tried to learn another language, only to discover that everyone just speaks English to them and eventually they just choose the path of least resistance.

Kingsley surely you can see that is due to your parentage not about other families ‘not being arsed’, you are wrong there.

If someone is exposed to many languages from birth it is happenstance. Like a pp had a friend on two borders, born elsewhere with parents of two nationalities. 3 native languages, about seven fluently (French, German, English native, Polish, Russian, Italian, Spanish fluently).

Compared with a family based in one monolingual place obviously the influences will differ.

Also on Oxford etc their admission information seems clear that they want you to study what you are good at and what best fits your subject. So maths, further maths, physics listed for one then ‘We really aren't too concerned about how you got on in subjects that aren't relevant to this, such as sport or drama.’ Shame they don’t clarify on languages trumping another student.

It appears strange that top universities talk about outreach then use an outdated model such as languages to make decisions - it’s pretty clear private does it better. But I’m going to look into it.

As for expecting everyone to speak another language if you have 6 languages in a room at a meeting you’ll all speak the common one. If you can’t then an interpreter. No one needs misinformation due to a low level school education language. Fine if you really are bilingual. But it takes a lot to get to that level.

Universities often treat "bilingual from birth" languages very differently. It's clear that the mastery of a language is often values simply because it is seen as a mark of academic seriousness, rather than because the language itself is useful.