Why not masks for all in secondary schools ?

[countryroses]

Why not ?

When I was at school in France the teachers just taught. If you misbehaved you were sent directly to a terrifying person whose only job was behaviour management.
Same here - and I always wondered why the UK didn't do that. Then I saw that the pastoral team in this country were so down with the kids that the kids run even more rings around them that they do the teachers.
Really sad situation for the ones who want to learn in a classroom here where the teacher is scared to be filmed because of their crap behaviour management 🙁

Could you reference the research (apologies if you gave the link earlier)?

Live lessons' main advantage was for parents: it took the child away for a set time each day.

That seems a really significant advantage.

Oh surprise ! life turns up with some casual teacher blaming!

My room would also be impossible to film in. I know because they tired it for some training and none of the sound was picked up and the very low light in the room meant nothing could be seen. I had to keep moving the laptop around with me because the whiteboard is in a different place form the projector board.

As I teach media , if I filmed the film clips I show , I would be breaking the law.

It would also involve training for many staff in how to use equipment. Not sure how that is supposed to happen!

How did we get on to this via masks anyway?

Agree with @life - Super sad to see England in 2020 where behaviour management and social services issues trump Learning for all those keen children - the majority - who want to learn. Eye-opening for the state of public education in England.

As I teach media , if I filmed the film clips I show , I would be breaking the law.

Is that clear? You are not putting the material online. It would only be available to the pupils via a password. www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptions-to-copyright may be helpful too.

Still struggling with the idea that a teenager bringing Coronovirus back to their parents (in the time honoured tradition of autumn term) is good for the teenager. I entirely get why we need them to go to school. I have a teenager, this past few months has been dreadful for her education/mood/development despite our best efforts. But it is still putting our local community at risk. Including me. I live in Greater Manchester. Neighbouring estate, where most of her classmates are from , had a spike recently.
I'm prepared to take the risk for her sake. But it is still a risk.

@notevenat20

Could you reference the research (apologies if you gave the link earlier)?

Live lessons' main advantage was for parents: it took the child away for a set time each day.

That seems a really significant advantage.

educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/covid-19-resources/best-evidence-on-supporting-students-to-learn-remotely/

But it's not an advantage for the children only a convenience for the parents.

Imagine, if you will, me delivering online live learning through Zoom. We start the lesson but have to waste the first five minutes making sure everyone is online and can both see and hear me. Let's assume they all have their own dedicated devices for the sake of argument although this is highly unlikely. I can't see everyone at the same time and if their camera is off then all I know is that they have logged into the lesson, not that they are actually there (some schools had a big problem with this).

I share my screen in order to start teaching and now, at best, can see four students. I start explaining the content but Johnny doesn't understand and he uses the hand gesture to show me that. I stop my explanation for all students and 29 of them sit there waiting whilst I explain everything again for one student. We carry on and a few minutes later, Johnny's hand gesture pops up again...

When we have finally finished the input, the students start working. They have less time then they need because the input took longer than it should and I can't see their work but I trust that they are doing it. Many of them would benefit from spending more time on this but the hour is up and they/we need to switch to another lesson.

With video and online platform, you don't have those same issues. Students control their own timetable and access the session when it's right for them. Those who understand can get straight on without interruption. Those who don't can still ask questions through the online learning platform. They have as long as they need on their work because they are not constrained by an existing timetable. I can say from experience that this approach works fantastically.

If this is even happening from unrecorded zoom/teams then it seems the problem is bigger and different from what we started discussing.

The sessions were recorded by teachers and then uploaded to teams. Students then screen recorded from the teams video. Why is this so hard to understand? It happens pretty regularly.

Please can you tell me how to record just me and my boards without including the rest of the class and using only a phone that doesn't require me spending time editing (because I'll be FT teaching)? If there's a way then I'm all up for it. Only there isn't.

Are teachers still going to be talking to pupils in groups and circulating the classroom under the new guidelines. I thought you were meant to stay in your socially distanced 2m (if you are lucky and have a large enough classroom) box at the front of the class.

When DS had his live lessons last term the teacher would do the instruction bit at first, then students got on with the work and they could ask for help if needed. Sometimes DS would work within a group and then present their work back to the class. Often heard him conversing in French when having French lessons. Think this was all done through Google classroom.

I wonder whether this would be better than the sitting in rows, not working in groups and teacher not circulating round the class plan that they are going back to in September.

Super sad to see England in 2020 where behaviour management and social services issues trump Learning for all those keen children - the majority - who want to learn. Eye-opening for the state of public education in England.

Direct your ire at the funding cuts that have been made to youth services. Behaviour management is necessary because society doesn't value education.

I'll have to be circulating. I need to see students work. Pointless me being there otherwise.

Personally, I think they should be mandatory. But in reality, that's incredibly hard to enforce. Trying to get (some) teenagers to wear a jacket to school when it's pissing down is hard enough, getting them to wear a mask all day would be a nightmare. And what happens if they don’t? Do they get sent home? That could quickly turn into chaos.

I wish we could just tell everyone to wear them and they would, but it's not that simple unfortunately.

When DS had his live lessons last term the teacher would do the instruction bit at first, then students got on with the work and they could ask for help if needed. Sometimes DS would work within a group and then present their work back to the class. Often heard him conversing in French when having French lessons. Think this was all done through Google classroom.

Great for you/your ds if you have the tech. Most of our students couldn't access live lessons. Pre recorded was best.

But it's not an advantage for the children only a convenience for the parents.

I am not sure the word convenience covers it. If you need to work to earn money you need to know which hours you are free to work.

@ineedaholidaynow
Are teachers still going to be talking to pupils in groups and circulating the classroom under the new guidelines.

Yes. Many schools are prioritising live marking and feedback as, educationally, it's better for the students.

Really sad situation for the ones who want to learn in a classroom here where the teacher is scared to be filmed because of their crap behaviour management.

More poison from the despicable @lifeafter50, who's on a cushy number in an independent school. The parents of your pupils can afford to pay and that filters out the really damaged children, but well done you on being so much better than all the rest of us out together.

@countryroses

Agree with *@life* - Super sad to see England in 2020 where behaviour management and social services issues trump Learning for all those keen children - the majority - who want to learn. Eye-opening for the state of public education in England.

Were you not aware of the behavioural challenges we face every day? And yet I thought teachers were perceived as having it so easy.

@notevenat20

But it's not an advantage for the children only a convenience for the parents.

I am not sure the word convenience covers it. If you need to work to earn money you need to know which hours you are free to work.

I taught through online platform and a mixture of prerecorded audio and video files and typed instructions depending on what was needed for the lesson. All of my Year Six children were able to access this independently without much need for parental involvement at all. In my phone calls with them, all of my parents reported that this had not affected their ability to work from home at all.

However, for argument's sake, let's assume that it had. Why should what is convenient for the parent trump what works better for the student or school?

Please can you tell me how to record just me and my boards without including the rest of the class and using only a phone that doesn't require me spending time editing

This is the standard model in universities where typically no editing happens. This would be best set up centrally so you don't have to be bothered with it. However in a school it should probably be someone's job to remove parts that need removing. Hopefully this would be rare.

Oh I know @Hercwasonaroll. His school did check whether everyone had the ability to access the technology before schools ‘closed’. Luckily we had bought DS a chrome book for his birthday a few months before, otherwise we wouldn’t have done.

Interestingly when the school was talking about Y10s and Y12s going back into school last term most parents preferred the online provision rather than a few hours in school (although the lack of school buses and the quite long school run might have had something to do with that too)

DS has had some project work to do over the holiday and that has been delivered by a few prerecorded lessons by the teacher.

Why should what is convenient for the parent trump what works better for the student or school?

I really don't understand your use of the word convenient. Let me put it more crudely. People to work so they can pay tax so they can pay your salary (assuming you are in a state school).

@notevenat20

Why should what is convenient for the parent trump what works better for the student or school?

I really don't understand your use of the word convenient. Let me put it more crudely. People to work so they can pay tax so they can pay your salary (assuming you are in a state school).

So therefore schools should prioritise the needs of the parents over the needs of the students and teachers?

And yet I thought teachers were perceived as having it so easy.

Even for those angry with teachers, no one thinks their job is easy. It's a little like those who are against the police. They hate them but wouldn't want to do their job either.

I could list more accurate negative stereotypes of teachers but I am not sure it would be constructive :)

How does live marking work, is that when you get students to mark their own work in lessons?

My understanding was that some schools were instigating the 72 hour quarantine thing with exercise books, so assume you wouldn’t be encouraged to touch books whilst walking round the class.

However in a school it should probably be someone's job to remove parts that need removing.

This is the second time you have suggested this. How many hours of video do you think would be created each day if we recorded (all?) the lessons in a school? How long would it take some poor sod to go through all of that and edit it?