Would you be willing to be put under house arrest in order to save lives?

[Treesofwood]

Just that really. Would you be willing to go to prison to save lives? Would you be willing to give up your children's right to an education to save lives? This whole situation brings up many philosophical questions for me, and my theoretical response is not actually the sane as my response when faced with the reality.

@Jrobhatch29

You're right lots of businesses can't open with SD. I don't think that means they shouldn't open. It is peoples livelihoods. Just because they are open doesn't mean you have to go but if people want to then they are not "selfish".

👍

@TheKeatingFive

God help my dumb arse, but I'll bite.

What have you done, Hearhoovesthinkzebras to help any of the following ...

Families who have lost their income as a result of lockdown measures and are now struggling to pay their bills and keep a roof over their children's heads.

Children who have been denied education and socialization opportunities since March and are suffering as a result

Women and children in abusive homes, totally trapped during lockdown

Those whose mental health has taken a significant turn for the worse since lockdown began

Young people whose job prospects are non existent and are looking at the mountains of debt they'll end up paying back for the country across their life times

People with non Covid health issues who haven't been seen properly by the specialists they need before March

Families grieving because they didn't get to say goodbye to loved ones or have a proper funeral because of Covid restrictions.

Those people all helped you by complying with lockdown measures. What are you giving back to them?

What have I done?

I've stayed at home so that I didn't get ill and take hospital care away from someone else.

I've complied with every single restrictikn and requirement placed on me, and then some. I haven't met with friends and family, even when permitted to do so, I haven't gone to restaurants or pubs or on holiday. I've made sure that I'm not catching it or spreading it and thereby taking resources.

None of the things you are concerned about are going to be improved by people looking out for their own family.

What do you honestly think the outcome was going to be, or indeed will be, if we all decide to worry about ourselves and what's best individually? Do you think behaving like that will improve the lives of abused women and children, will improve access to the NHS, will create jobs for young people?
Why do you think these things haven't affected me? I've been waiting for urgent treatment since February. I've had none of my routine care or monitoring either. My DD graduated university this year - no graduation, no end of uni celebrations, no hope of finding work. I'm in the same shit situation as everyone else but I can see the answer isn't "every man for himself"

@Jrobhatch29

You're right lots of businesses can't open with SD. I don't think that means they shouldn't open. It is peoples livelihoods. Just because they are open doesn't mean you have to go but if people want to then they are not "selfish".

So that means you think businesses should open without SD? What do you think the consequences of that will be?

People might be able to go to the dentist for their routine checks at last.

Thats one consequence.

And we've also had our income slashed and our now supporting our DD too.

So why are you asking what I'm doing for those people? I bloody well am one of them.

@Pertella

People might be able to go to the dentist for their routine checks at last.

Thats one consequence.

Are dentists willing to risk exposure then?

Such an interesting question. I've been shielding, and expect that I'll have to do so this coming winter too. I wouldn't expect people to go into house arrest unless they refused to quarantine or flagrantly break the rules.

However, I DO expect people to follow basic rules like SD, wearing masks, and handwashing, as far as humanly possible. I don't think that is too much to ask. Even though I'm shielding, I need to know that e.g. delivery people are following the rules. I do need to go out occasionally for my own sanity, so need to know that other people are being careful not to put me at unnecessary risk. That only seems fair.

But I wouldn't want to see widespread lockdowns again.

@PhilCornwall1 and @TheKeatingFive pretty much summed up everything I was going to write, so I'll just second both posts.

@Treesofwood

Flyshemust how have you protected the vulnerable in the past? People have sadly died unexpectedly and before their time before covid.

So you want me to sound like I'm bragging?

OK then.

I was a volunteer counsellor for many, many years.

I was a blood donor and on the bone marrow lists until my own age and health meant I couldn't be any longer.

I've lobbied for extra care for a disabled relative.

I helped my Sis find a specialist school for her autistic son.

I nursed both parents through their final illnesses.

I make substantial donations to charity.

When lockdown was on I made sure our elderly neighbours had all the food and supplies they needed.

What do you do?

"I've stayed at home so that I didn't get ill and take hospital care away from someone else.

I've complied with every single restrictikn and requirement placed on me, and then some. I haven't met with friends and family, even when permitted to do so, I haven't gone to restaurants or pubs or on holiday. I've made sure that I'm not catching it or spreading it and thereby taking resources."

We all did that.

Some of us are not prepared to not see our families. We are allowed so don't act like you are some kind of Saint for not seeing your own bloody family! I had a baby in May and couldn't have my mam with me for the birth. My children couldn't come to the hospital to meet their baby sister. These are experiences I will never get back. My parents met their first grand daughter through a window for the first 5 weeks of her life. I spent that time alone with a newborn, home schooling 2 kids whilst my partner was asked back from furlough when she was 10 days old. I was in agony from a difficult birth and could hardly walk. I had to home school 2 kids whilst caring for a baby without any family support whatsoever. I was ridiculously depressed and lonely. My 2 boys haven't had the attention they deserve as newborns are hard work. My youngest now has an imaginary friend who he talks to and has developed tics because he is not coping at all. So actually, I think I have given enough. I will see my friends and family within guidelines and they will go to school. I am not selfish!

By the way. shielding is effectively self-imposed house arrest.

Here you go again

Yes, they should if they want to, and people should be able to go

That was to hooves

I don't know why I'm bothering to argue. You're all applauding Phil's response which is basically let people do what they want including discarding any infection control measures whilst simultaneously describing how abused women and children have suffered, education has suffered, non Covid medical services have suffered, young people have no jobs, families are suffering financially. You can't comprehend that what you are demanding will make the issues you claim to care about even worse.

America did what you are arguing for - looks to.be a great success over there, and I don't think.

I don't know why I'm bothering to argue

No ones making you 🤷‍♀️

You just keep on making stuff up though 👌

basically let people do what they want including discarding any infection control measures

Liar

@Jrobhatch29

"I've stayed at home so that I didn't get ill and take hospital care away from someone else.

I've complied with every single restrictikn and requirement placed on me, and then some. I haven't met with friends and family, even when permitted to do so, I haven't gone to restaurants or pubs or on holiday. I've made sure that I'm not catching it or spreading it and thereby taking resources."

We all did that.

Some of us are not prepared to not see our families. We are allowed so don't act like you are some kind of Saint for not seeing your own bloody family! I had a baby in May and couldn't have my mam with me for the birth. My children couldn't come to the hospital to meet their baby sister. These are experiences I will never get back. My parents met their first grand daughter through a window for the first 5 weeks of her life. I spent that time alone with a newborn, home schooling 2 kids whilst my partner was asked back from furlough when she was 10 days old. I was in agony from a difficult birth and could hardly walk. I had to home school 2 kids whilst caring for a baby without any family support whatsoever. I was ridiculously depressed and lonely. My 2 boys haven't had the attention they deserve as newborns are hard work. My youngest now has an imaginary friend who he talks to and has developed tics because he is not coping at all. So actually, I think I have given enough. I will see my friends and family within guidelines and they will go to school. I am not selfish!

I'm not talking about during lockdown. I'm talking about now. People demanded to know what I'm doing to pay back what apparently was done only for me. What I'm doing is everything that I can to make sure I don't catch or spread this and contribute to a second wave.

I was answering a question aimed at me that demanded to know what I'm now doing to re pay society. That's what I'm doing.

Hooves wants to lock children in their houses without access to health care or education.

Hooves wants elderly and disabled people to sit in their own filth to preserve social distancing measures.

Hey, this making shit up stuff is fun!

Accept the fact that it shouldn't be a big surprise that others put themselves and their families above others, it's been like that since the beginning of time and will continue to be that way.

It hasn't always been that way, though. It really hasn't. Most people accept that other people matter and don't think they are more important than anyone else. I believe in the innate goodness of most people, sociopaths and psychopaths aside.

I'm walking away now. I'm not reporting any of the posts that are just personal attacks. Let them stand so everyone can see.

This poster wants businesses to open without social distancing. - that's discarding infection control measures so fuck off with calling me a liar.

Social distancing isn't the only infection control measure so not being able to SD isnt discarding infection control.

So you are either a lying deliberately being obtuse or plain ignorant.

I do my bit by assuming everyone else are mingers who rarely wash their hands and don't look after their own health. It's not foolproof but it's got me this far,

Before Covid, it was widely known people don't wash their hands - bar nuts anyone?

Before Covid, people would walk into public bathrooms, and have this complicated system of touching everything with tissue, avoid the perfectly good soap and water for a bit of anti-bac ffs.

Before Covid, toilet brushes cleaned in dishwashers. (are people still doing this)

Before Covid. many in society never went for any medical checkup, including those sexually active regardless of their condom use.

Before Covid, parents dosed their kids with calpol to reduce temp and sent to school.

Before Covid, parents would come up with excuses about why it would take hours to collect their sick kid from the school. Even worse, they were already throwing up/diarrhea at home.

Very few people cared enough about classmates with underlying health issues. Damn some even kicked off when food was banned because of allergies!!

People have always been selfish. We have to put ourselves first for our individual survival, even airlines in an emergency, put your mask on first before you help someone.

Oh get lost @Hearhoovesthinkzebras! Your self preservation at all costs attitude is getting boring. Why should businesses not be allowed to open? Are you for real? Let's make hundreds od thousands unemployed, that will help!