Would you be willing to be put under house arrest in order to save lives?

[Treesofwood]

Just that really. Would you be willing to go to prison to save lives? Would you be willing to give up your children's right to an education to save lives? This whole situation brings up many philosophical questions for me, and my theoretical response is not actually the sane as my response when faced with the reality.

It is not one extreme or the other. It’s not economy vs virus. It’s not school vs terrible mental health. It’s not selfish vs unselfish.

We need to stop pitting ourselves against each other.

People being more careful, more social distancing are helping everyone as they are creating more social distance space in society which is a kind of fire wall.

People choosing to be as normal as possible are doing so for their own reasons and as long as you are not being deliberately ‘virus denying’ and not wearing masks on public transport etc - then that is your decision and I respect that.

People not sending their children to school are not being extreme imho - it is a risk - however we do need to ensure that our children are educated at home and they have some outside world contact even in a small way for their mental wellbeing.

Personal attacks aren’t good for anyone’s mental wellbeing.

@Jrobhatch29

Where are you getting "with no precautions" from? We are all taking precautions. We are doing what is being asked so we can keep society going and keep out jobs - hand washing, social distancing, masks etc. What we don't want is to be locked down again, and put our families at risk of other things to save others! As for schools, we don't make the decisions on schools. So if going back to school means no precautions then I still think my kids need to go. That isn't my fault.

Because people stating they've sacrificed enough and are now only bothered about their family and no one else might well mean back to normal, no precautions, depending on what their family needs.

People who run nightclubs, restaurants, pubs, gyms, theatres, etc - looking out for their families does mean open up with no precautions doesn't it? Those businesses aren't sustainable with SD, PPE and other precautions.

Opening schools up with no precautions does run the very real risk of spreading this outside of the population you all seem to be low risk, to vulnerable teachers and to vulnerable students. That then has wider effects on society.

You can't make businesses Covid safe without affecting those businesses which affects the employees who may well be posting on here.

You can't expose only the young and healthy to this because older and vulnerable people are needed to keep society running and so will also be exposed alongside the young and healthy.

I don't understand what it is that you want to see happen that doesn't in turn spread this to the whole of society?

People like Lweji know what they are talking about.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras is there any thread on MN you don’t pop up on and make it all about you?

[quote RaspberryRuff]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras is there any thread on MN you don’t pop up on and make it all about you?[/quote]
How am I making it about me?

I'm discussing effects on the whole of society. It's not about me in any way, shape or form.

The people talking about only their family mattering are the ones making it about them.

We are all doing the best we can do @Hearhoovesthinkzebras. People that agree with your perspective are not the only people who "know what they are talking about". It is a different opinion, not a fact.

Oh look, more making things up that people haven't actually said.

@Jrobhatch29

We are all doing the best we can do *@Hearhoovesthinkzebras*. People that agree with your perspective are not the only people who "know what they are talking about". It is a different opinion, not a fact.

So what is it that you want?

It’s always all about you

To not have to stay at home hence the point of the thread!!!

Has hooves answered the actual thread topic?
As in the actual question posed, not the made up version in their head.

@Jrobhatch29

To not have to stay at home hence the point of the thread!!!

Ok. So not staying at home - so doing what instead?

@Pertella

Has hooves answered the actual thread topic? As in the actual question posed, not the made up version in their head.

Yep, I did thanks

@Noneformethanks

It’s always all about you

So talking about the effects on the whole of society is about me? Ok

Because people stating they've sacrificed enough and are now only bothered about their family and no one else might well mean back to normal, no precautions, depending on what their family needs

Yes I have sacrificed enough and so has my family. After the horrendous past few months I refuse to sacrifice anymore for people I don't know. I still take any precautions necessary to mitigate mine and my family's risk but will do no more than that. Everybody else can do the same as far as I'm concerned. Every single post you put up is all about how people should think about what you've suffered and what you are going through. You demand that others should be thinking of you and protecting you when you are not prepared to think what others have/ are going through to do that. You are as selfish as a person can get and I have no time for it anymore.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras go to work, go to school, isn't that obvious? Why are you making it more complicated? To accept that social distancing, masks and handwashing etc is the most we can do now to protect others. We don't make the rules on schools and funnily enough I am not going to disadvantage my own children who I obviously care about more than others by not sending them just because Boris and Co are tools. I am not going to be made to feel guilty for putting my children first. I don't expect the parents of the children in my class to consider me before their own children either.

I read an article a few weeks ago and this quote stuck with me

"But attempt to argue that the cost of our response has in any way outweighed the impact of the virus and expect to be labelled a virus denier. Then expect to be asked, accusingly, how many deaths you would find acceptable. No matter how often or how emphatically you declare “We should protect the vulnerable”, some will hear those words as “Let’s throw the old people to the wolves"

Since March we have missed education and lost vital health care in this house, I'm a shielder. How much more do we have to give up? I have dependents and I am their only parent, their dad died.

My adult dc is in hospital, early 20's and had to be resuscitated at work a week ago. The hospital aren't allowing visitors, they relented yesterday and allowed us to meet and again in a few days time, she's not a prisoner ffs, she's scared and her mh is understandably suffering.

MH services made a decision years ago that I shouldn't be locked up because it's no good for my mh. Under house arrest there is a very high chance I would escape and would be a danger to the public. Many of us are like this. MH have worked incredibly hard with me since March to prevent something like that happening. Same with when I do end up in hospital and my movements are restricted.

We cannot stay in lock down forever, to do so would destroy the country.

God help my dumb arse, but I'll bite.

What have you done, Hearhoovesthinkzebras to help any of the following ...

Families who have lost their income as a result of lockdown measures and are now struggling to pay their bills and keep a roof over their children's heads.

Children who have been denied education and socialization opportunities since March and are suffering as a result

Women and children in abusive homes, totally trapped during lockdown

Those whose mental health has taken a significant turn for the worse since lockdown began

Young people whose job prospects are non existent and are looking at the mountains of debt they'll end up paying back for the country across their life times

People with non Covid health issues who haven't been seen properly by the specialists they need before March

Families grieving because they didn't get to say goodbye to loved ones or have a proper funeral because of Covid restrictions.

Those people all helped you by complying with lockdown measures. What are you giving back to them?

So what is it that you want?

Ok, you keep asking this, so I'll tell you what I'd like to see.

People:

1. who want to get out there and be normal, let them.

1. that are vulnerable and still feel they are at serious risk, make the decision on what they need to do and look after themselves.

1. who want to go to the pub, go for a meal in a restaurant, meet up with friends, that's fine. Stop accusing them of being selfish and all the other shit that goes with it.

1. who want to go to the beach or go on holiday, well that's fine, up to them. Same applies to this as number 3.

Also:

Education to get back to normal and for pupils to learn. The last few months has been a shit show and the exams farce has been an even bigger one.

And for Jesus Christ sake stop with all this social responsibility virtue signalling bollocks, because that's exactly what it is. Mask wearing, social distancing and everything else isn't a fucking competition in being socially responsible. You won't be getting a knighthood for it.

Accept the fact that it shouldn't be a big surprise that others put themselves and their families above others, it's been like that since the beginning of time and will continue to be that way.

@PhilCornwall1

So what is it that you want?

Ok, you keep asking this, so I'll tell you what I'd like to see.

People:

1. who want to get out there and be normal, let them.

1. that are vulnerable and still feel they are at serious risk, make the decision on what they need to do and look after themselves.

1. who want to go to the pub, go for a meal in a restaurant, meet up with friends, that's fine. Stop accusing them of being selfish and all the other shit that goes with it.

1. who want to go to the beach or go on holiday, well that's fine, up to them. Same applies to this as number 3.

Also:

Education to get back to normal and for pupils to learn. The last few months has been a shit show and the exams farce has been an even bigger one.

And for Jesus Christ sake stop with all this social responsibility virtue signalling bollocks, because that's exactly what it is. Mask wearing, social distancing and everything else isn't a fucking competition in being socially responsible. You won't be getting a knighthood for it.

Accept the fact that it shouldn't be a big surprise that others put themselves and their families above others, it's been like that since the beginning of time and will continue to be that way.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

@PhilCornwall1

So what is it that you want?

Ok, you keep asking this, so I'll tell you what I'd like to see.

People:

1. who want to get out there and be normal, let them.

1. that are vulnerable and still feel they are at serious risk, make the decision on what they need to do and look after themselves.

1. who want to go to the pub, go for a meal in a restaurant, meet up with friends, that's fine. Stop accusing them of being selfish and all the other shit that goes with it.

1. who want to go to the beach or go on holiday, well that's fine, up to them. Same applies to this as number 3.

Also:

Education to get back to normal and for pupils to learn. The last few months has been a shit show and the exams farce has been an even bigger one.

And for Jesus Christ sake stop with all this social responsibility virtue signalling bollocks, because that's exactly what it is. Mask wearing, social distancing and everything else isn't a fucking competition in being socially responsible. You won't be getting a knighthood for it.

Accept the fact that it shouldn't be a big surprise that others put themselves and their families above others, it's been like that since the beginning of time and will continue to be that way.

Wins the thread!

I’m with Phil

@PhilCornwall1

So what is it that you want?

Ok, you keep asking this, so I'll tell you what I'd like to see.

People:

1. who want to get out there and be normal, let them.

1. that are vulnerable and still feel they are at serious risk, make the decision on what they need to do and look after themselves.

1. who want to go to the pub, go for a meal in a restaurant, meet up with friends, that's fine. Stop accusing them of being selfish and all the other shit that goes with it.

1. who want to go to the beach or go on holiday, well that's fine, up to them. Same applies to this as number 3.

Also:

Education to get back to normal and for pupils to learn. The last few months has been a shit show and the exams farce has been an even bigger one.

And for Jesus Christ sake stop with all this social responsibility virtue signalling bollocks, because that's exactly what it is. Mask wearing, social distancing and everything else isn't a fucking competition in being socially responsible. You won't be getting a knighthood for it.

Accept the fact that it shouldn't be a big surprise that others put themselves and their families above others, it's been like that since the beginning of time and will continue to be that way.

Exactly this.

@TheKeatingFive couldn't have put it better myself.

[quote Jrobhatch29]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras go to work, go to school, isn't that obvious? Why are you making it more complicated? To accept that social distancing, masks and handwashing etc is the most we can do now to protect others. We don't make the rules on schools and funnily enough I am not going to disadvantage my own children who I obviously care about more than others by not sending them just because Boris and Co are tools. I am not going to be made to feel guilty for putting my children first. I don't expect the parents of the children in my class to consider me before their own children either.

I read an article a few weeks ago and this quote stuck with me

"But attempt to argue that the cost of our response has in any way outweighed the impact of the virus and expect to be labelled a virus denier. Then expect to be asked, accusingly, how many deaths you would find acceptable. No matter how often or how emphatically you declare “We should protect the vulnerable”, some will hear those words as “Let’s throw the old people to the wolves"[/quote]
But you say "go back to work, go back to school isn't that obvious?" Then you say you accept SD, hand washing and masks. But for many people having to abide by SD, hand washing and masks means their businesses can't open, or have closed down or aren't profitable.

This is the point I'm making. You are talking about your circumstances and what you can do and they work alongside the current Covid safe requirements. But that doesn't apply to everyone. So arguing on here for individuals to do what's right for them does mean that the precautions you are happy to accept will be abandoned by others, which will spread this virus.

That's why we need central policies that attempt to look at the whole of society and not individuals.

You're right lots of businesses can't open with SD. I don't think that means they shouldn't open. It is peoples livelihoods. Just because they are open doesn't mean you have to go but if people want to then they are not "selfish".