We've saved a lot of lives

[Nellodee]

I don't really know how to write this, I don't want it to come across as patronising. I was just struck by how hard this has been for everyone and how many changes we have made, for such a long time. How many sacrifices, how many decisions that were not for our benefit, but for the benefit of our society. It's been a massive concerted effort. We've all gone through a lot of hardships, for people we don't even know. We've saved a lot of lives.

It does sound patronising, I didn't mean it to, but it felt like something I hadn't really thought of in that way, how ... I can't find the right word... virtuous? good? kind? ... we've all been. I know we've all bickered about statistics, and politics, but we've all done it, changed our lives to protect the old and vulnerable. Whether or not you think we did the right thing, we all did it for the right reasons.

And how many more NHS patients will die from lack of treatment?

Have we though would it have been worse, people say with certainty but noone knows.

I'm more worried about suicides, missed cancer treatments, poverty which will outstrip the deaths from Corona.

Really well said @Nellodee. A nice way of keep perspective and reminding what the point of all of this was (and still is).

@FluffyKittensinabasket lots of people would have died from a lack of treatment if the NHS had been overwhelmed.

It's an indisputable fact that had we not locked down many more people would have died. Not locking down would also have had a profound impact on the economy (how would the country continue to run with the majority of the workforce sick) and there would have much more grief @heresme

You think that. You hope it's true. You don't actually know. The final cost, financially and in human terms will be incalculable. Cancers missed, livelihoods destroyed, families split apart. More likely a greater death toll than the virus itself.

It's an indisputable fact that had we not locked down many more people would have died

No it it entirely disputable as no one can actually say and a lot was based on Neil Fergussens predictions, who's past predictions have been hundreds of thousands out.

The majority of the workforce would not have been sick stop with the bullshit fear.

You think that. You hope it's true. You don't actually know. The final cost, financially and in human terms will be incalculable. Cancers missed, livelihoods destroyed, families split apart.

A million times this. And we’ve still so much shit to come. The economic fallout is only beginning.

@Nellodee I'm sorry that there are so many people trying to turn your thread which has been so well written and has such well meaning intentions into something negative.

I just hope that in years to come when we can finally look back on it that it will have been worth it. I have my doubts. We won’t know for sure until we see just how many excess deaths there would have been maybe over a year or longer and also the full economic impact. What a mess.

@HeresMe

It's an indisputable fact that had we not locked down many more people would have died

No it it entirely disputable as no one can actually say and a lot was based on Neil Fergussens predictions, who's past predictions have been hundreds of thousands out.

The majority of the workforce would not have been sick stop with the bullshit fear.

To be fair given we had days of over 1000 people dying it’s likely that we had 100000 infections for each of those and the epidemic was doubling every few days.

I actually don’t know anyone who has died of Covid. However today I learnt that someone I work with has killed themselves. They lived alone and their family are overseas so lockdown would have been highly isolating for them. The chances are that had lockdown not happened they would be still alive. Lockdown may have saved some lives, but it’s certainly taken others.

@HeresMe I really can't be bothered arguing with you, but head on over to the daily stats and analysis threads and read about countries like Sweden who didn't have a lockdown.

Looking at the stats we definitely would have had many more deaths if we hadn't locked down.

The economic mess has only just begun. Everything has a knock on effect on everything else. It's a giant shit show and it hasn't even begun. It's going to be utterly utterly devastating.

In my opinion, had the elderly in care homes and hospitals been given the right protection, we would have saved many more lives and we could have followed the Swedish approach. The NHS cancelled pretty much everything else due to Covid and staff were redeployed left right and centre, yet there was nothing for many of them to do and I have this on good authority. Calls to GP surgeries and visits to A&E dropped dramatically, no one wanted to go anywhere near a hospital. People were already working from home and not really going anywhere, the media and government did a good job in scaring everyone, the official lockdown was not needed. The fallout from this will be far worse.

@CitizenCandyKane

You think that. You hope it's true. You don't actually know. The final cost, financially and in human terms will be incalculable. Cancers missed, livelihoods destroyed, families split apart. More likely a greater death toll than the virus itself.

Yes absolutely. The government's failure to take proactive preventative action in February and March has caused so much damage. So many jobs and lives lost unnecessarily. This damage could've been mitigated had they closed the borders and taken some other precautionary measures. We could've been living relatively normally by now.

I think the whole thing is beyond a joke. Many more people will die of the effects of the lockdown than would ever have died of a virus which is no more dangerous to most people than the flu or a bad cold. I think people have been mindless zombies blindly following our idiotic government.

Plus the effort and sacrifice we made wasn’t at all the same. My husband’s work was shut down by the government and I lost my job. Other people got to keep working in secure jobs from home. My kids are high school but other people had to educate primary kids whilst trying to work whilst some found it a breeze to wfh because they didn’t have to do that. Others were out working throughout. Some were ill themselves and lost loved ones they couldn’t even say goodbye to or mourn properly. Millions of people and a million different impacts from all of this.

I was in support of the lockdown but not really sure we have really grasped the full impact of this yet. How many lives lost from no treatment and more to come. We can't even comprehend that impact yet, not what the recession will bring.

Do I think lockdown was the right decision based on what we knew? Yes! But I don't think it's right to talk about saving lives when we don't know. The NHS, at least here still now, seems to not exist unless it's COVID related.

The truth is there was no ideal way of dealing with it. Even if we’d done what NZ did we might have had months of relatively normal life but still the risk of the virus coming back when no one had any immunity to it.

I appreciate what you're trying to say and I really hope that's the case given so many have made a really massive sacrifice - it is important to stop and think about whose life might have been saved. But I'm someone who also thinks that the potential damage done by lockdown will outstrip what the virus has done, unfortunately. So I'm really very unsure it was worth it or the right thing to do, morally speaking.

NZ had a few cases recently. They acted fast and effectively and it's already nipped it in the bud. It's highly likely a vaccine will be ready in just a few more months so it's not as if they're be at risk forever. Their economy is doing pretty well. Evidence indicates there's little natural immunity after catching it so really the vaccine (or wider access to various drug treatments) is the only real protection.

@FluffyKittensinabasket

And how many more NHS patients will die from lack of treatment?

Because all treatments would have gone ahead as usual if the NHS had been overrun?

And as Sweden showed, no lockdown means an economic hit too. Social distancing and caution still hits business as does a global recession.

A hit to the economy, mental health issues and missed treatments would have happened either way. It’s a sad reality but it’s true.

@HeresMe I really can't be bothered arguing with you, but head on over to the daily stats and analysis threads and read about countries like Sweden who didn't have a lockdown.

You said it's indisputable, you are wrong analysis isn't facts so it is disputable.

Well said Nellodee.
I remember your name from the earlier CV threads.
Didn't take long for the foul opinions that the lives saved weren't worth saving though, did it.
Some people just have dirty souls I guess.

Well said nellodee.