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Original poster

We've saved a lot of lives

120 replies

Nellodee · 19/08/2020 18:16

I don't really know how to write this, I don't want it to come across as patronising. I was just struck by how hard this has been for everyone and how many changes we have made, for such a long time. How many sacrifices, how many decisions that were not for our benefit, but for the benefit of our society. It's been a massive concerted effort. We've all gone through a lot of hardships, for people we don't even know. We've saved a lot of lives.

It does sound patronising, I didn't mean it to, but it felt like something I hadn't really thought of in that way, how ... I can't find the right word... virtuous? good? kind? ... we've all been. I know we've all bickered about statistics, and politics, but we've all done it, changed our lives to protect the old and vulnerable. Whether or not you think we did the right thing, we all did it for the right reasons.

OP posts:
Mogtheforgetfulmum · 19/08/2020 20:32

@Librarybooksandacoconut by your logic we shouldn't have had a lockdown to prevent the needless deaths of tens of thousands of people because some people 'might' kill themselves. We don't have a cure for coronavirus.

I hate all of this 'I dON't KNow ANYonE whO DIed of COvid' stuff. Like that's supposed to make the huge numbers of deaths we have had mean less. It's so insulting to the many people who do.

Oh, and I have a relative who is now on 24/7 watch as he is suicidal due to the neurological effects he is now suffering from after catching and surviving (but not recovering) from coronavirus. He was previously completely fit and healthy. Young. If we had let this run through the population there is no knowing how many people there would have been suffering from these long term effects.

mrshoho · 19/08/2020 20:37

I agree with you @Nellodee and understand your sentiment. Ignore the buffoons who still cannot see that the lockdowns prevented so many more deaths and chaos. If these people don't get it by now they never will.

HeresMe · 19/08/2020 20:38

Didn't take long for the foul opinions that the lives saved weren't worth saving though, did it.
Some people just have dirty souls I guess.

Except that isn't happening except in your mind.

But the people who have died of other things don't count (and souls don't exist)

Mogtheforgetfulmum · 19/08/2020 20:40

@HeresMe bleurgh I can't believe you are actually even suggesting that we wouldn't have had more deaths had we not locked down.

HeresMe · 19/08/2020 20:40

Ignore the buffoons who still cannot see that the lockdowns prevented so many more deaths and chaos. If these people don't get it by now they never will.

Ah we are buffoons but lockdown was based on Neil Fergussens figures who is useless.

mrshoho · 19/08/2020 20:43

@HeresMe

Ignore the buffoons who still cannot see that the lockdowns prevented so many more deaths and chaos. If these people don't get it by now they never will.

Ah we are buffoons but lockdown was based on Neil Fergussens figures who is useless.

give me fucking strength. Has Brazil or Mexico or India or USA or Germany or anywhere else in the world taken action because of Neil Fergusson?
HumphreyGoodmanswife · 19/08/2020 20:44

I agree with PPs. The damage done and still to come from lockdown will far outstrip the number of deaths lost to the virus. For those who honestly still believe the statistics pulled out of thin air 5 months ago by Neil Ferguson, predicting the number of deaths without a lockdown, I am utterly lost for words.

I am also in the camp who gets slightly peeved when I hear the 'all in this together' 'everyone affected the same' rubbish spewed out over and over. We've certainly not all been 'in this together' and by no means have we all gone through 'hardships'.

Both my siblings have continued working throughout, one for the NHS, extra hours for some unknown reason for her to sit down most of the day (her words, not mine), the other working from home saving thousands by not travelling into London on the tube every day and their DCs school fees reduced. Both are so much better off than they were in March with no other hardship to their families.

I am a SAHM and my DH was made redundant in March as a result of lockdown, we have no income. Virgin Airways refuse to speak to us regarding reimbursement of holiday flights from March so we have the hassle of making call after call to our credit card company in the hope they will help us. My DH's lovely sister has had her cancer treatment delayed by months and her DH has also been made redundant. I understand your happiness at protecting the elderly, but who is protecting families like hers?

So, lovely as you sound, please stop saying all this was worth it, we've all been through hardships. We haven't.

Librarybooksandacoconut · 19/08/2020 20:44

@Mogtheforgetfulmum I’d ask that you reflect on the fact that today I have learnt the person I personally knew, liked and respected is dead and may well not have been if there had been a different response in this country. Your reply is a bit shitty given that. You’ve got your own personal impact from the pandemic and lockdown and I have mine like everyone else on this thread. I also didn’t actually say there should have been no lockdown so I’d ask that you don’t actually subscribe that viewpoint to me.

HeresMe · 19/08/2020 20:51

give me fucking strength. Has Brazil or Mexico or India or USA or Germany or anywhere else in the world taken action because of Neil Fergusson?

We are talking about the UK

Deaths are down now in the UK for multiple weeks how do you explain that. But how do you explain the 50000 5years ago.

mrshoho · 19/08/2020 20:53

So no lockdown scenario. Infections would have continued uncontrolled. Millions infected. What would be at by this stage? 50million of which 40million may have recovered but with what lasting long term effects we don't yet understand. How many requiring medical treatment? How many intensive care? How many deaths? With the virus uncontrolled how many police, healthcare, keyworkers debilitated? Do you honestly think mental health care, cancer care etc would have carried on with no lockdown?

mrshoho · 19/08/2020 20:55

@HeresMe

give me fucking strength. Has Brazil or Mexico or India or USA or Germany or anywhere else in the world taken action because of Neil Fergusson?

We are talking about the UK

Deaths are down now in the UK for multiple weeks how do you explain that. But how do you explain the 50000 5years ago.

It is a global pandemic. The UK is no different and we are not some supreme higher order where the virus will just by pass us because we are British!
Mogtheforgetfulmum · 19/08/2020 20:56

@Librarybooksandacoconut I apologise if my response was a bit shitty. I am genuinely very sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. You are right in that we have both been impacted personally by this lockdown, which this does make it hard not to take this all personally.

I think that the effect of lockdown on people personally shouldn't have any bearing on whether what happened was good/bad. The decisions made should have been for the good of society as a whole. Whether they were or not we are yet to find out but personally I think saving tens of thousands of people from an early death was worth the cancelled holidays and redundancies. If we hadn't had a lockdown things like cancer treatment would have been delayed anyway as the NHS would have been overwhelmed.

Mogtheforgetfulmum · 19/08/2020 20:57

*which does make it hard not to take personally.

Mogtheforgetfulmum · 19/08/2020 20:58

@mrshoho

So no lockdown scenario. Infections would have continued uncontrolled. Millions infected. What would be at by this stage? 50million of which 40million may have recovered but with what lasting long term effects we don't yet understand. How many requiring medical treatment? How many intensive care? How many deaths? With the virus uncontrolled how many police, healthcare, keyworkers debilitated? Do you honestly think mental health care, cancer care etc would have carried on with no lockdown?
I completely agree.
Alex50 · 19/08/2020 21:11

I was listening to radio 2 today about domestic violence in lockdown, the police were receiving calls every 30 seconds. One lady was saying when lockdown began her partner turned to her and said let the games begin. He raped her over 100 times in lockdown, she eventually contacted the police when he said you will never see daylight again.

Librarybooksandacoconut · 19/08/2020 21:12

@Mogtheforgetfulmum thank you for the apology. I think the really important thing to remember is that while lockdown may have prevented the deaths of some people, there will also be others who die as a consequence of lockdown but who would have survived Covid if they caught it. As individuals their deaths are no less important than the deaths of those with Covid.

ohthegoats · 19/08/2020 21:18

It was an interesting experiment in human nature I think. We mostly just did what we were told. Some of that was altruistic, some of it was fear, but it still happened, and as a collective we did what was intended - flatten the curve, prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. We now know lots more about what this really meant, but at the time, it was done. And not just here, but pretty much everyone in the world. Amazing.

Also interesting is how divisive all the different issues around it have become, but that's another thread.

Pomegranatepompom · 19/08/2020 21:22

Agree. I don't many others will though... the NHS bashing has reappeared in force, as well as the people who think furlough should go on forever ..

I hope we will look back and feel most people did what they could to protect the vulnerable. Also the people stepped up by continuing to work and support others, well there must be a certain amount of pride in that.

Pomegranatepompom · 19/08/2020 21:24

@Alex50 I heard this on the radio today. It was chilling. Also thought Victoria Derbyshire was so honest & brave to speak out.

Alex50 · 19/08/2020 21:41

@Pomegranatepompom it really made me think of if you were in lockdown with an abuser you really had no where to go, it was chilling.

Ellsbells12 · 19/08/2020 22:23

@HeresMe

Have we though would it have been worse, people say with certainty but noone knows.

I'm more worried about suicides, missed cancer treatments, poverty which will outstrip the deaths from Corona.

This !!!
Remmy123 · 19/08/2020 22:26

I don't feel like that at all. I think the whole thing was totally OTT - jobs post, people dying as a result of hospitals not helping anyone unless they had COVID!!! I mean wtf!!!!

People lost homes... businesses etc - makes me so cross!!!

People to scared to leave their homes and live normally because the government/media have manipulated us!!!

Eyewhisker · 19/08/2020 22:50

Neil Ferguson predicted that Sweden would have 70,000 deaths from the virus. They have had less than 6,000, over half of whom were in care homes.

The after effects of the reaction here - increased cancer deaths due to the NHS stopping treatment for everything else and still not operating properly, the unemployment, domestic violence, disrupted education, permanently higher taxes for our children, huge increase in poverty worldwide, including some in developing countries who may starve

Who knows whether it has been worth it?

Eyewhisker · 19/08/2020 22:51

We’ve ruined a lot of lives would be more accurate

Userzzz · 19/08/2020 22:52

A woman just murdered her autistic son because she couldn’t handle the lockdown without his special needs school. Are you serious right now?