Not doing quarantine properly.

[irishheartenglishblood]

DH spoke to a friend earlier who arrived back from France at 4pm on Sat, so 12hrs after quarantine started.
Said friend and family are going to WFH, but are planning on daily trips to the park, a once weekly trip to the supermarket, and to meet up with family next week.
DF firmly believes their behaviour is within keeping of the quarantine rules.

I'm quite torn. On the one hand, it seems quite arbitrary. On the other hand, if everyone who is supposed to be quarantining does this then it probably increases risk. But then they may have been staying in areas where the infection rate was lower than here. I think that was the case for DH's friend.

Thoughts?

Vivid = covid

Indeed we do not need hysteria.
We need a proper test track and trace system
that takes a localised targeted approach to reducing community transmission.

People coming in from Morbihan by Eurostar to London are now MORE at risk than they were in France

Locking down whole cities is pointless
the Local authorities should be circling each case with testing
and ACCURATE serology tests to see who has recently had it so is neither contagious nor at risk.

People coming in from Morbihan by Eurostar to London are now MORE at risk than they were in France hmm

Depends on what they were doing. Many people go out much more on holiday for example.

Plus given everyone is so excited about asymptomatic cases, how do you know there aren't asymptomatic cases in Morbihan.

The point is you don't know, I don't know, no one knows. So quarantine is precautionary I guess.

Decent bloody quarantine back in February would have really helped!!

Plus given everyone is so excited about asymptomatic cases, how do you know there aren't asymptomatic cases in Morbihan.
Or Britain .....
Maybe the French should never have let the Brits in

The whole quarantine thing is just a cover for xenophobia and blaming others for cockups.

COVID is NOT a serious disease for those under 60 (as per David Spiegelhalter who knows)

COVID is NOT a serious disease for those under 60 (as per David Spiegelhalter who knows)

What are you classing as "serious"? There are reports of "mild" cases being left with serious heart and lung problems. I'd class that as serious.

read what Spiegelhalter says
the multiple of anecdote is not data

COVID is NOT a serious disease for those under 60

This just goes round in a loop doesn't it - this is why asymptomatic cases are a concern, because covid is a concern for over 60s, and asymptomatic people may spread it to the over 60s, so perhaps helpful if returning travellers quarantine...

I agree France may quarantine their returning travellers too. Because people traveling is an issue for spreading the virus.

@ListeningQuietly

read what Spiegelhalter says the multiple of anecdote is not data

But there is data to show that people who had supposedly mild cases have now been found to have cardiac and lung damage, that could be long term. That is serious.

This is the problem with only fatalities being published. We need to know how many people have complications or long tail Covid as well as how many have died.

@cantdothisnow1

I can't believe more people are NOT objecting to Q14. Especially the fact that you cannot exercise in the fresh air. That's draconian and even at the height of the pandemic we were urged to exercise.

Where is the evidence that healthy people locking themselves indoors for 14 days is NECESSARY to protect public health.

I agree. It’s all bonkers.

But there is data to show that people who had supposedly mild cases have now been found to have cardiac and lung damage, that could be long term.
That also happens with flu and some other coronaviruses.
The risk of getting seriously or chronically ill from COVID does not warrant many of the steps currently being taken.

Targeted responses will control the disease without destroying civil liberties and the economy

I can't believe more people are NOT objecting to Q14. Especially the fact that you cannot exercise in the fresh air. That's draconian and even at the height of the pandemic we were urged to exercise

Except the 2.5million who were asked to shield.

And everyone in symptomatic isolation and their households.

@ListeningQuietly

But there is data to show that people who had supposedly mild cases have now been found to have cardiac and lung damage, that could be long term. That also happens with flu and some other coronaviruses. The risk of getting seriously or chronically ill from COVID does not warrant many of the steps currently being taken.

Targeted responses will control the disease without destroying civil liberties and the economy

Flu does not kill or disable people in the same numbers as Covid is. It isn't comparable

@nether

I can't believe more people are NOT objecting to Q14. Especially the fact that you cannot exercise in the fresh air. That's draconian and even at the height of the pandemic we were urged to exercise

Except the 2.5million who were asked to shield.

And everyone in symptomatic isolation and their households.

People would rather those of us who were shielding be locked away permanently if it means that they could go to the pub and on holiday without constraint.

Of course we can't calibrate each person's individual risk on holiday, but blanket severe quarantine restrictions are, like masks, more about being seen to do something than necessarily being effective. I know that I was in a very remote place, went walking, went to the supermarket in a mask, ate in one restaurant, went to a couple of cafes sitting outside, had a swim on an empty beach. Travelling in a private car with one stop to refuel and go to the loo is not especially high risk, though of course there are risks of exposure with any journey. I maintain that this very restrictive quarantine will cause more people not to follow it than a more relaxed 'lockdown rules' quarantine would have done.

I maintain that this very restrictive quarantine will cause more people not to follow it than a more relaxed 'lockdown rules' quarantine would have done.

Maybe so. We have no enforcement really anyway.

Flu does not kill or disable people in the same numbers as Covid is. It isn't comparable
Nobody knows what the long term effects of COVID may or may not be.
We also do not have accurate data on the other health issues of those with long term damage
What we do know
is that hospitals have hardly any COVID patients but other urgent treatments have not restarted
which may well kill significant numbers of people in the UK

Flu does not kill or disable people in the same numbers as Covid is. It isn't comparable

No you're right - they're not comparable - 152 people lost their lives to covid in the week up to August 7, compared to 1,013 who died of flu and pneumonia.

People would rather those of us who were shielding be locked away permanently if it means that they could go to the pub and on holiday without constraint.

Not at all - but at what point do we have to try and open society back up for the majority? Quarantining from many holiday destinations which have fewer cases than many UK locations is absurd.

@Juststopswimming

Flu does not kill or disable people in the same numbers as Covid is. It isn't comparable

No you're right - they're not comparable - 152 people lost their lives to covid in the week up to August 7, compared to 1,013 who died of flu and pneumonia.

That's in that week and "flu and pneumonia" cover an awful lot of conditions, including people who are confined to bed by other debilitating and disabling conditions who develop pneumonia due to immobility.

How many people were dying of Covid at the peak? It feels like you are advocating a return to that

@Juststopswimming

People would rather those of us who were shielding be locked away permanently if it means that they could go to the pub and on holiday without constraint.

Not at all - but at what point do we have to try and open society back up for the majority? Quarantining from many holiday destinations which have fewer cases than many UK locations is absurd.

People on MN have repeatedly said that the way forward is for the vulnerable to be shielded so that everyone else can return to normal living - how is that "not at all"?As for returning holiday makers - how does anyone know where they went (other than the country) or what they did whilst there? The risk of quarantine and removal of air bridges has been known since this started - anyone who has travelled since then has done so knowing this was a possibility.

People will not shield for ever.
COVID is with us for many years to come.
Many people would rather get out, get fit, get fresh air and reduce their risk factors
than hide away in fear from something that may not happen.

I was swimming today with a friend who has just finished treatment and major surgery for stage 4 colon cancer. He's been in the sea and on the beach and out and about because to hide at home is as bad as dying for him

@ListeningQuietly

People will not shield for ever. COVID is with us for many years to come. Many people would rather get out, get fit, get fresh air and reduce their risk factors than hide away in fear from something that may not happen.

I was swimming today with a friend who has just finished treatment and major surgery for stage 4 colon cancer. He's been in the sea and on the beach and out and about because to hide at home is as bad as dying for him

How do you reduce your risk factors from say drug induced immunosuppression?

I'd be happy to Q14 if someone could point to the actual risk I would be posing to a vulnerable person by taking my dog for a walk in the fresh air.

The government haven't pointed to the actual risk and why is it safe for a person who fits in the exceptions (of which there are many) to walk their dog but not me?

It is taking away basic liberty without giving substantive evidence as to why it is necessary that is objectionable.

And the exceptions such as transport staff and people who work abroad more than once a week are surely much more likely to have come into contact with C19 than the average holiday maker! None of it makes much sense if you scratch beyond the surface.

How do you reduce your risk factors from say drug induced immunosuppression?
Weight management
Cardio fitness
Inflammation reduction
Healthy balance of micronutrients
all the things that stage 4 cancer patients are told to do