US Doctor On Opening Schools

[mac12]

Dr James Hildreth, CEO of an American hospital and public health adviser to the mayor of Nashville, has a clear message about the opening of schools.

6 minute video well worth everyone's time.

@NebularNerd

If it's hysteria to ask for protection for teachers and students in schools because the virus is mild etc etc, then ALL the other restrictions on our lives must ALSO be hysteria, too.

Can I take it that those who think that teachers are hysterical think the same about social distancing/masks etc in all other settings?

Is it hysteria that we must wear masks in shops, for example?

Is it hysteria that you must have your temperature taken and wear a mask to get a haircut?

Or is it only hysteria if teachers want protection?

Precisely if it is mild why are all these people still WFH? They should all toughen up and get back into the office!

@pontypridd

I am shocked at how many people are prepared to gamble there children's health.

This exactly Kitcat. I struggled to put it into words earlier on.

Either these parents don’t care - which I really don’t believe can be true - or they just don’t think anything could happen to them. Maybe they believe that bad things only ever happen to other people.

Without being flippant, I think we all have a tendency to think that bad things will happen to other people and not us. It’s part of our psychology and human nature.

On a personal level, my youngest DC was born with a very rare health condition that made him critically ill (he is doing well now). I knew that such things happened, and that NICUs existed for a reason, but I never thought it would be my child.

@pontypridd
Look at the statistics of flu and children. Look how many more people are dying of flu each day at the moment compared to covid. Where are all these children apparently dying of Covid? Even during the peak when they were still at school and before the government purposely terrified people.
Were you aware than in excess of 54000 died of the flu in 2017/2018?
Yes so why didn't we look down then but have locked down now? It's because it's been the world's biggest over reaction in history, that's why. Many more people will die from the result of lockdown. Cancer treatments have all but stopped - but hey, you don't have cancer so who cares?
The government have worked their magic on you to justify what they have done, but they haven't to me and so many others thank god.

@StaffAssociationRepresentative
Yes, you're right. Even though I know you were being sarcastic.

For the whole period after February half term and until lockdown, our kids, particularly in large urban areas were in school while the infection rate was rampant and peaking. So it’s not an unknown scenario where we have no data on what will happen. They will go back in a different context as the infection rate is lower and there are social distancing measures in place and hand washing and mask wearing.

Mask wearing seems an imprecise science, it helps in certain situations up to a point. But if you are going to be sat in it all day with poor ventilation it probably starts to become less useful as it’s hot and uncomfortable and people will touch their faces and the masks will saturate. You probably need several masks to change throughout the day and after eating for it to be fully protective. How realistic is that? But happy for teachers to wear them if they feel better doing so.

@Gwynfluff
Absolutely

It's not "flu" it's "flu pneumonia and other respiratory illnesses" all lumped together.
And yes that children are dying of these is a tragedy. Why do we want to add in another illness to die of when we can have a few more months of caution before there is a vaccine like there is for flu. So masks in school. Genuine social distancing for secondary. Extra funding for enhanced cleaning and resources.
As I have said before, it not like we are asking for the moon on a stick....

moretolife

Cancer treatments would also stop in the event of allowing the virus to run through society with no precautions (no SD etc). The WHO says up to 20% infected need hospital support. That would tie up the NHS very quickly and not leave any spare resources for cancer sufferers.

I find it astonishing that there are posters on this thread who don't take this seriously and place their own half-baked opinions above the considered views of world renowned experts in the field where children's lives and long-term health are at stake. Not their emotional well-being, important as it is. How well are children going to be in another surge? Being at school will not protect them from illness, long-term consequences, bereavement, the stress and worry of seeing friends and teachers ill, the concern that you may have been the one to pass it on to them. It seems common in pandemics for people to develop a head-in-the-sand mentality at wearying moments when the uncertainty and limitations seem overwhelming. Virulent viruses treat this attitude cruelly. No one wants to see posters like the upbeat teacher in Scotland (upthread) proved wrong (although one hopes she isn't teaching evidence-based analysis or maths involving exponential growth). At the same time, it's hard not to feel frustrated with the utter lack of concern about issues that are causing great concern to experts who are far more experienced. The media also has a lot to answer for as it is cherry picking science to get the economy going again.

[quote moretolifethanthis2020]@StaffAssociationRepresentative
Yes, you're right. Even though I know you were being sarcastic.[/quote]
No I am not. I just don’t understand the mixed messages. Covid is safe and mild for schools to be back so surely all workers should be back.

But not it is not the case. Some government depts are saying Jan 21, some businesses are saying another year and this weekend Schroders announcement permanent WFH.

For the whole period after February half term and until lockdown, our kids, particularly in large urban areas were in school while the infection rate was rampant and peaking. So it’s not an unknown scenario where we have no data on what will happen.

And this is reassuring how?

Schools closed well before the peak.

Not their emotional well-being, important as it is.

Not having emotional well-being, do you realise that can be fatal, particularly to adolescents?

@InDeoEstMeaFiducia

However, I would not suggest that those people stop being so ignorant and face the facts that when large groups of people congregate, without social distancing, then we will see increased transmission of covid-19. Recently, there were 100 positive cases in a food factory in Northampton of 2000 workers.

I would also suggest that people realise that there is no society, no way to run a human society, without groups of people congregating. You simply cannot. It has to happen or many vital services that keep society running and prevent anarchy cannot run.

It's also really hard to run a decent society with a great amount of unemployment and un-educated people.

But hey, Covid! OMG!

I am not against schools reopening or society opening up. I am simply stating that people have the right to be concerned about increased transmission when they do. I don’t agree with calling people “hysterical” if they have genuine concerns. I will be sending my children back to primary school, and will value the education and socialisation that they will gain.

[quote moretolifethanthis2020]@NebularNerd
Yes I think it's all hysteria now, I do.

I am a teacher don't forget. I have no issues with teachers who want to wear a mask etc. I choose not to. But yes, I think this is the biggest overreaction to anything I've ever seen.

I honestly know people will be reassured within a month or so.[/quote]
You're entitled to your opinion of course, if you think the international response to Covid is hysterical.

Personally, I don't believe that governments across the world would have jeopardised global economic stability without good reason.

That aside, I don't want to catch it, and I don't want my clinically vulnerable husband or elderly parents to catch it either. I've seen the footage of patients in intensive care and I've read about the long term effects of it that we still know little about.

I also think I that the debate about whether Covid is serious enough to warrant the current measures being put in place across the world is a separate one to the debate about whether teachers should be protected from it in the work place, as workers in other professions are.

I never called anyone hysterical .

I'm sure there will be more transmission but as long as it's not causing overwhelming hospital admissions and deaths, then I still don't get the problem.

Look at our excess death toll. Why do you think there is any chance that more transmission will not cause more hospital admissions and deaths? Just...why?

@AnIckabog

It would also be a lot safer if: Primaries: required to keep bubbles no bigger than 32ish (not bubble the whole school) and if cases rise to go to part-time schooling to enable more distancing and bubbles of 15/16. Secondaries: the government could have spent the summer funding to get all pupils online with laptops so that everyone can access online learning. Then schools could do blended learning with not all pupils in at once. This age shouldn't need babysitting and half at school, half online learning would enable more (any!) social distancing. All schools: allowed to require proof of negative test for pupils who have been sent home with covid symptoms. Currently they have to take parents' word for it. Also extra funding for more cleaning, soap and gand sanitiser. Government docs say 'staff should not wear PPE' not 'PPE optional' which is why mant schools aren't allowing masks. This should change for all staff, and secondary school pupils. That would be a good start.

All of this plus additional government funded childcare centres for when Covid rates rise ( which they will if they try to get schools back as normal) and parents of primary aged children need to work.

Cruise ships do show 80%

A reference to this perhaps?

"In a more recent report from a different cruise ship outbreak, all passengers were issued surgical masks and all staff provided N95 masks after the initial case of COVID-19 on the ship was detected.38 In this closed setting with masking, where 128 of 217 passengers and staff eventually tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 via RT-PCR, the majority of infected patients on the ship (81%) remained asymptomatic, 38 compared with 18% in the cruise ship outbreak without masking."
link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-020-06067-8

Because on the Diamond Princess cruise ship it was only around 20%.

The most commonly cited figure for asymptomatic cases is around 40%.
The recent large UK Imperial Ipsos serological survey gave a figure of 32% of cases being asymptomatic.
mobile.twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1293829063786868736
And then there is this - "meta-analysis of 41 studies concludes 16% of people are asymptomatic -- much lower than the 40% we've been hearing lately.
And it's 28% in kids."
mobile.twitter.com/apoorva_nyc/status/1286407462589997056

So to state as a fact that 80% of cases are asymptomatic or 70% of cases are asymptomatic as posters have repeatedly done on here is inaccurate - we don't know for definite what percentage of cases are asymptomatic and those high figures are likely to be overestimates.

@pontypridd

the problem is that the government isn’t bothered about the science any more.

This is the problem ginger. But are parents going to let their kids go like lambs to the slaughter, back into a Russian roulette situation?

Is everyone kind of that numbed and desperate and brainwashed? Even the teachers? Why are we not all making a stand against this?

If parents are teachers what choice do they have ? Stand up and fight it and get verbally slaughtered in the media and on MN?

If my children don't go to school I can't afford the fines.
If my children don't go to school their father has said he will take me to court for a residence order.
If I don't go to school to work we will lose our home.

I think the circumstances surrounding the easing of the first lockdown have created confusion and complacency about how quickly Covid can bounce back.

The summer/outdoor lifestyle, schools closed and so many people furloughed/working from home has slowed the uptick. This is not real life. Where we saw mass gatherings, they were often outdoors and we largely got away with it. Where we saw outbreaks, they have largely been among younger people who less likely to be hospitalised (although I know of a lady in her thirties who passed away this week and others in the same age bracket currently hospitalised). This, along with very careful reporting in many of the popular news outlets, lockdown exhaustion and some frankly appalling propaganda from the government has made us think we can do this with little cost.

Despite a slow start-up cases are now on the rise in many areas in Europe (including Ireland, in a big way) and Britain is not exempt from this. We are weeks away from the flu season, indoor living and the trajectory we're on isn't good.

And we're sending children back without masks or social distancing or an effective test and trace system.

HIldreth is also very keen on influenza jabs, mask-wearing, testing of people in prisons & care homes, very proactive contact tracing. He has a poor opinion of Trump. If you think this chap's opinions are so important to repeat, may as well talk about his many views.

@GingerandTilly

I can’t understand why government guidance doesn’t recommend masks in schools. Is it a supply issue or are they worried it will make parents / teachers more conscious of the risks?

It'll upset the children in primary

@InDeoEstMeaFiducia

I never called anyone hysterical .

If you are confused then I suggest you scroll back and you will see that you have commented on my response to another poster. Or just leave it and scroll on.

No, I am not confused because I personally never called anyone hysterical.

The kids in primary see people with masks in shops, on the street, on buses.
Mine have their own washable cotton masks already. Only the ASD one has problems with it.