If You Could Choose Any Education Option for Sept

[IDSNeighbour]

I'm getting so confused by what parents actually want to happen with schools right now (I'm not a parent, I'm a teacher). I want to know what home opinions my classes are going to be coming in from in Sept - whether they're likely to be nervous or confident, whether they will want to SD or not, etc.

I know parents aren't one hive mind but the 'loudest voice' seems to keep changing its mind. Or I hear different ones, idk.

I'm sure there used to be a board for polls and surveys but, if I wasn't imagining, I can't find it.

So, if you're up for an unscientific straw poll to help me gauge general feeling, can you post A, B, C, D or E in the thread (you can explain if you like, I don't mind!)
A - I want full time schooling as close to the old normal as is allowed
B - I want full time schooling but with safety measures such as social distancing and masks for all who can and are old enough.
C - I want blended learning (half in the classroom and half online)
D - I want to keep my child at home all the time, home school them and not be penalised (ie, I want my place back when I think it's safe)
E - I think schools should remain closed for most children for now.

A. Kids absolutely need to get back to a normal environment for the sake of their education but more especially for their emotional well-being

ask appears to have diligently responded to every single one of my posts and then stopped at this one:

“So you admit that teachers getting sick will have consequences for schools opening fully, that at least some children may need to be sent home and therefore to ensure a full and continual provision of education we should take measures that seek to prevent teachers from getting sick?

Excellent, ask, you don’t agree with A after all.”

But if children are more likely to be asymptotic / mild cases, there will be more than two in a bubble before two are detected to close it?

A bubble is an entire year group in KS4. That could be 240 pupils, each pupil will see 6 teachers every day. Probably 10+ over the course of a week. If two pupils are not in all the same classes say 15 teachers?

That's the two symptomatic pupils, not counting the ones who are asymptotic and haven't been detected.

They might not infect all those teachers, but infect one and they'll probably see all their classes before they show symptoms (that's 9 classes in 7 different bubbles for me)...

Can you see the problem yet?

@noblegiraffe

ask appears to have diligently responded to every single one of my posts and then stopped at this one:

“So you admit that teachers getting sick will have consequences for schools opening fully, that at least some children may need to be sent home and therefore to ensure a full and continual provision of education we should take measures that seek to prevent teachers from getting sick?

Excellent, ask, you don’t agree with A after all.”

Because it is nonsense!

@Frlrlrubert

But if children are more likely to be asymptotic / mild cases, there will be more than two in a bubble before two are detected to close it?

A bubble is an entire year group in KS4. That could be 240 pupils, each pupil will see 6 teachers every day. Probably 10+ over the course of a week. If two pupils are not in all the same classes say 15 teachers?

That's the two symptomatic pupils, not counting the ones who are asymptotic and haven't been detected.

They might not infect all those teachers, but infect one and they'll probably see all their classes before they show symptoms (that's 9 classes in 7 different bubbles for me)...

Can you see the problem yet?

That may be true. But many asymptotic children in a bubble will have no impact on teachers becoming sick. No evidence asymptotic carriers spread infection. Even if they did the chances of them infecting 6 or 7 teachers is an impressive jump in the R value!

As we currently stand...

D

Because it is nonsense!

That we should seek to prevent teachers getting sick and thus ensure continuity of education for all children?

That’s what you’re calling nonsense, ask?

@noblegiraffe

Because it is nonsense!

That we should seek to prevent teachers getting sick and thus ensure continuity of education for all children?

That’s what you’re calling nonsense, ask?

You can read what I have posted if you are interested in my opinion

A.

All the way through this I've only ever wanted A, and am prepared to accept the risks that come with that. They are preferable to the continuing and worsening impact that no schooling is having on my kids.

@askmehowiknow
No evidence asymptotic carriers spread infection

Erm... silent transmission is thought to be the main driver behind the spread of the virus. This is caused by people with asymptomatic and/or presymptomatic infections. So your statement here is factually inaccurate.

Confirm or deny, ask?

Do you think we should seek to prevent teachers getting sick and thus preserve continuity of education for all children?

@snappycamper

A.

All the way through this I've only ever wanted A, and am prepared to accept the risks that come with that. They are preferable to the continuing and worsening impact that no schooling is having on my kids.

I should say that B is also fine by me

@askmehowiknow

However it is NOT killing children
Except it has, and it will, not many...but unfortunately, you know those children with underlying health conditions for whom it can be dangerous...ds is one of those.

Let's consider the future for our youngsters...
which is exactly what I am trying to do when I weigh up the risks of sending my very vulnerable child into school...unfortunately my options are limited by threats of fines and people who blithely suggest deregistering.

D for me too... son is already stressing and crying over going back as he has scared of the virus and bring it back to his newborn sister. As am I!

A symptomatic child in a secondary school will come into sustained contact with 6-7 teachers in one day just from form time and lessons. Add in a TA or two, maybe a dinner lady or A N Other member of staff on the corridors.

There are no spare teachers in schools. It just isn't a thing. Most schools had to close to two or more year groups in the last week of term because of self-isolation of staff with symptoms.

As an aside, can everyone please stop using the word “asymptotic”?

We may be otherworldly maths teachers, but at least we know what that word means.

@Iamnotthe1 well maybe the asymptotic carriers approach the line for transmission but never actually reach it - you never know, she may actually be correct.

Of course if we're discussing asymptomatic transmission then yes, clearly that statement is absolute rubbish.

[quote Alittleodd]@Iamnotthe1 well maybe the asymptotic carriers approach the line for transmission but never actually reach it - you never know, she may actually be correct.

Of course if we're discussing asymptomatic transmission then yes, clearly that statement is absolute rubbish.[/quote]

I'm going to assume it's just an autocorrective error and not a deliberate attempt to confuse the argument.

As an aside, can everyone please stop using the word “asymptotic”?

It's bloody autocorrect. Which really ought to recognise/offer asymptomatic by now, but still doesn't

@RoseAndRose

As an aside, can everyone please stop using the word “asymptotic”?

It's bloody autocorrect. Which really ought to recognise/offer asymptomatic by now, but still doesn't

The real question is what kind of autocorrect assumes that you'll require the word asymptotic more frequently than asymptomatic?

But the current R value is dependent on how many people we currently come into contact with.

In the first week of September that number will grow exponentially for tens of thousands of teens and teachers.

I've been in social distanced where possible mask free contact with about 7 people this week (most of them in my household), all off whom have also been in contact with less than 10 people.

In September I'll be in socially distanced where possible mask free contact with 200+ pupils in my classroom, and however many more when I'm on duty. All of them will be in bubble of either 30ish (KS3) or 180ish (KS4) for classroom and 180ish for break and lunch, plus their 9 or 10 teachers, plus their families.

If R is currently around 0.8 in my area, what's it going to be when all those people suddenly have 20x more contacts?

@noblegiraffe

Confirm or deny, ask?

Do you think we should seek to prevent teachers getting sick and thus preserve continuity of education for all children?

No I don't. There is no evidence teachers are infected above community levels

Even if they did the chances of them infecting 6 or 7 teachers is an impressive jump in the R value!

Agreed. But then how many people currently in work are sharing a room with up to 32 people at a time who are crammed in with poor ventilation and no PPE whatsoever on anyone? Most high school lessons are 50 minutes to an hour long and last thing I read on transmission was that 50 minutes in a room with someone with active symptoms was enough to infect those around them. There are some interesting diagrams demonstrating transmission in a restaurant and also in a call centre environment showing direction of air circulation, where the infected person was and who was also infected by the end of that meal. It is alarming to see and is the reason many teachers are concerned. There will be no avoiding it.

Moreover, it seems likely that such transmission will result in a high dose of the virus associated with more problematic COVID. That alone will cause schools to shut their doors at least to some year groups for prolonged periods as staff take time to get well. And staff who are very unwell won’t be setting work so there will be very little continuity of education if your child is in their class.

The key is do throw everything we have at keeping staff in schools well because that alone will ensure your children receive the education the deserve over the next academic year. If your child is in their exam years, you really, really want to avoid the loss of one of their teachers from the classroom for a prolonged period of time. Unfortunately, we’re not throwing so much as a wet paper towel at the issue. We have predicted problems for months now but this ‘school at all costs’ mentality that is prevailing is not the answer. School at all cost will put staff out of action, potentially for months.

assumes that you'll require the word asymptotic more frequently than asymptomatic?

Maths teacher problems.

[quote Iamnotthe1]@askmehowiknow
No evidence asymptotic carriers spread infection

Erm... silent transmission is thought to be the main driver behind the spread of the virus. This is caused by people with asymptomatic and/or presymptomatic infections. So your statement here is factually inaccurate.[/quote]
Err no it's not!