School return will fail

[covidteacherscotland]

Okay so we have been back to school for a week! Great? No. Definitely not. Some thoughts on why this will be a disaster:

16 and 17 year olds are not children.

Social distancing is impossible. Genuinely impossible. Children will not or cannot stay out your space.

There is no PPE in school at all and staff are not protected in any way.

Children don't give a shit about washing their hands.

We've been doing double periods instead of single to minimise movement. This means that we are stuck in a room with 30 17 year olds with few or no windows as the respiratory droplets add up.

Educating your child is impossible if you can't go near them.

Our time management and pupil progress relies on us being able to give feedback to children formatively as we teach. To mark jotters as we go. We can't do this now.

I think that because infection is so low we'll be okay for a while - a few weeks - then the shit will hit the fan.

[quote 10storeylovesong]@covidteacherscotland - OK, so let's look at it your way... Everyone in unsafe working environments around the country, let's down tools. Since March, there would have been no public transport, so supermarkets open, no factories open to manufacture anything, no police (although lets face it, our working conditions are unsafe the majority of the time), no nurses, no mental health workers. So many more professions I could name. What do you propose we do?[/quote]
All these professionals also have unions. They are also themselves entitled to be concerned and ask for safety measures if they aren't provided.

Stop trying to race to the bottom and joining the attempt to make teachers no 1 enemy of the UK

@loulouljh

I would not want temperature testing! no way. Teachers are not trained medical professionals! Where does this end??!!!!!

Parents aren't qualified medical professionals.

I've never seem anyone say they shouldn't be allowed to put a scanner in front of their child's forehead and press a button.

I do agree though that I don't think it's a measure that needs to happen or that will be a good indication.

Schools do and will take the temperature of any child who presents as ill and deal with each one on an individual basis.

@loulouljh

I would not want temperature testing! no way. Teachers are not trained medical professionals! Where does this end??!!!!!

How much training do you need to zap a thermometer in front of a child's forehead, ffs?!

Teachers are not trained medical professionals! Where does this end??!!!!!

I’m not a trained medical professional but I have been shoving a thermometer under my kids arms when they feel warm since the day they were born. Indeed, when seeking medical advice from a professional, when I say their temperature read 38.2, said professional take that as read.

As for where does this end? Quite simply with the death of too many teachers and closed schools.

@CaptainMerica, but that wasn't the thread title. The OP didn't say opening schools "has" failed, but "will" fail. In her opinion. Having seen the carnage that is unfolding in her own place of work.
But as ever, there are numerous posters on here who know better, and have been appallingly rude and unsupportive, because her account of the realities does not suit their narrative.

Temperature readings can be very inaccurate depending on technique.

[quote CallmeAngelina]**@CaptainMerica, but that wasn't the thread title. The OP didn't say opening schools "has" failed, but "will" fail. In her opinion. Having seen the carnage that is unfolding in her own place of work.
But as ever, there are numerous posters on here who know better, and have been appallingly rude and unsupportive, because her account of the realities does not suit their narrative. [/quote]
My point was that even if the current arrangements do not last long (and I agree they will not, in secondary at least), and schools revert to blended learning, then that is not really a failure.

A switch to blended learning in the face of evidence to support it would be unavoidable. Not a failure of schools or government, and certainly not teachers.

@loulouljh

I would not want temperature testing! no way. Teachers are not trained medical professionals! Where does this end??!!!!!

So funny. Straight out of Monty Python.

Trained medical professionals are the only one who can take temperatures. Hilarious.

Yes. Well.

@loulouljh

I would not want temperature testing! no way. Teachers are not trained medical professionals! Where does this end??!!!!!

Since when do you need to be a “trainer medical professional “ to take a fucking temperature? Hairdressers have been doing it fgs

I'm pretty sure the young man aged about 18 who took my temperature at the door of Chessington wasn't medically trained!

He was however very polite to everyone and explained he needed to take temp, where to stand and made it feel so normal.

I went to school in the 80s & 90s, we didn't have water bottles. We didn't use water fountains as the looked minging. I don't get why I know carry a water bottle everywhere for my children and I? How's the culture changed so much? Were we really disadvantaged back then?

My kids are taking water bottles and classrooms have jugs of water available that the teacher pours into paper cups.

@FrippEnos

It's not the same at all.

We will have to agree to disagree

I know some parents are selfish, others are desperate.

Yet all the parents that send their children in ill are desperate, that is also a generalisation.

Again I never said anything about holidays so ...

suit yourself.

Yeah ok I never said all .......

@Enoughnowstop

Teachers are not trained medical professionals! Where does this end??!!!!!

I’m not a trained medical professional but I have been shoving a thermometer under my kids arms when they feel warm since the day they were born. Indeed, when seeking medical advice from a professional, when I say their temperature read 38.2, said professional take that as read.

As for where does this end? Quite simply with the death of too many teachers and closed schools.

Ah yes, because it's a certainty that teachers WILL DIE.

As for taking temps, there's been several threads on here about people having their temp taken, and it's been a temp that would mean they were dead or close to it and the person taking the temp had no idea.

No point in doing it if you don't know what the results actually indicate.

And it's unreliable, so would only give you a false sense of security anyway

Ah yes, because it's a certainty that teachers WILL DIE

Yep. And schools will close. The bit you didn't highlight.

[quote covidteacherscotland]@10storeylovesong you're not getting this at all. All if those professions you mention have some form of safety measures in place. If the employers/ owners/ employees choose not to do them well 🤷🏿‍♀️ but otherwise, in theory, they are being afforded some special measures to try to keep them safe.

I've got a hand sanitizer and an open window.

I'm not talking about holidays. I'm talking about safety. [/quote]
I think OP, in fairness your levels of anxiety are making it hard for you to focus on the full picture, and you are (understandably) picking out only certain facts that then increase your anxieties.
What 10story is saying is true. There are many, many professions working in similar conditions. I keep saying this, not sure you have seen my posts, I work as a clinician in mental health. I work across inpatient wards and the community. Each ward has 15 patients, some are covvid postive at times. I spend time on all the (small cramped) wards with all the patients hours at a time. None of the patients wear masks. I wear an ordinary surgical mask, the same sort you can now buy on amazon - which you yourself have said you could wear if you wanted to. I do NOT wear an FFP3 mask (higher level protection) UNLESS I was performing an aerosol generating procedure - which on a mental health ward would probably mean ressusciation - but could include various surgical procedures - none of which would ever happen in a school!
Additionally I see outpatients, many, many people a week. This is always in a small room, or even in their own homes which are oftern cramped, full of people and dirty.(not judging here - just being factual)
I have been doing this non stop throughout the whole thing.
My patients often like to cough or spit at me.
The NHS has taken all the advice and done what it can to keep us safe. We have surgical masks and plastic apron. But at the end of the day there will always be a risk. there is a risk when you go out at all. But additionally I am aware the risks are small.
I have absolutely no choice but to carry on and do my job. What would happen if all my team said they werent working - wards full of mental health patients and no staff? Thousands of communcity patients with no mental health support? It just cant happen so we carry on. As do many, many other professions. the point of saying this is not that it is a race to the bottom , but more a case of reassurance. Yes it isnt ideal, but as I said before overall it has been fine. I think if you give yourself chance your anxieties will reduce.

And yet then HCP died, hospitals didn’t close.

In all likelihood if teachers become positive, it will be from adult contacts. Recent article in BMJ restated seems children are low risk. I think the secondary schools have more unknowns.

What would happen if all my team said they werent working

Yes, it would be similar levels of chaos to teams of teachers saying they weren’t working.

As no teacher has said that, it’s not a problem though, is it?

Most of us in primary went back in June, all of Scotland are back already.

What teachers would like, is to be offered some levels of risk mitigation in order to keep staff, children and school communities as safe as possible and more importantly to keep schools open. This isn’t in place. One way systems and opening the window the inch that it opens isn’t enough.

It’s a shame, as I suspect when things start to crumble in October time, the government will suddenly decide that they have got some money for schools after all, and masks are actually obviously really important in all enclosed spaces.

Schools definitely should have money for the measures required.

How do you think SEN schools have managed? My school has never closed and all our children have been in. No PPE, impossible to social distance with the kids or other members of staff. Admittedly we don't have 30 in a class but due to the nature of our children they can bite, spit, soil etc so I would say we are pretty high risk.

My DS works in a well known supermarket and due to his Uni being closed in March he worked full time during the peak. Guess what, for the first few weeks he was given no PPE whatsoever and customers kept pinching the sanitiser provided for staff!

@loulouljh

I would not want temperature testing! no way. Teachers are not trained medical professionals! Where does this end??!!!!!

You don't want masks, don't want temperature checks. How do you feel about handwashing, or is that all a bit too much for you as well?

I presume you've got a plan for what your children will do if their school or class needs to isolate after a classmate tests positive? It's far more likely to happen if there are no measures in place.

Moss carpet, with patients coughing and spitting on you, why are you not simply wearing a visor? To catch those droplets. And why wear a surgeons mask?

It's your choice if that's how you go into battle with flimsy ppe.

I'd like more protection.

Blimey, since when does one need to be a trained medical professional to operate a thermometer?

Children in Arizona now make up 12% of Covid cases and over 5% of all hospital admissions. They haven’t even opened schools yet.

ktar.com/story/3483746/study-shows-covid-19-hitting-kids-harder-in-arizona-than-most-states/

The myth children are unaffected by Covid started because when the epidemic hit in Wuhan children were off school for New Year. As the virus rolled around the world, schools were closed limiting spread to children.

According to the CDC’s updated guidance, 90% of children will become symptomatic with some hospitalisations, 6% will require intensive care and 4% are asymptomatic. Our children have more chance of ending up in intensive care than of having an asymptomatic infection.

www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/pediatric-hcp.html

Children have largely been spared the effects of Covid because they were shielded. Now countries are opening up schools, we will see a sharp increase in paediatric hospital admissions, deaths and the development of Long Covid in children.

www.cnn.com/2020/08/10/health/children-long-covid-symptoms-intl-gbr/index.html

Once we make this mistake, it will be impossible to undo.

So many goady fuckers hating teachers. Full of bile and lies.

No one hates teachers, we're just fed up with their endless resistance to do their job.