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School return will fail

775 replies

covidteacherscotland · 14/08/2020 18:43

Okay so we have been back to school for a week! Great? No. Definitely not. Some thoughts on why this will be a disaster:

16 and 17 year olds are not children.

Social distancing is impossible. Genuinely impossible. Children will not or cannot stay out your space.

There is no PPE in school at all and staff are not protected in any way.

Children don't give a shit about washing their hands.

We've been doing double periods instead of single to minimise movement. This means that we are stuck in a room with 30 17 year olds with few or no windows as the respiratory droplets add up.

Educating your child is impossible if you can't go near them.

Our time management and pupil progress relies on us being able to give feedback to children formatively as we teach. To mark jotters as we go. We can't do this now.

I think that because infection is so low we'll be okay for a while - a few weeks - then the shit will hit the fan.

OP posts:
SengaStrawberry · 14/08/2020 21:59

@Pomegranatepompom

But this level of mask is only required of you are working with covid + patients. The current infection rates are 1 in 2000, your chance of contact is very small. Your chance of having sustained contact with someone with a high viral load is lower that that.
Nearer 1 in 20000 in Scotland just now
Redglitter · 14/08/2020 21:59

I literally ant think of any other occupation that has been asked to work in a confined space with 30 other people with no PPE

My work fits that description. Im a Police Despatcher. Work in a room with around 35 other people. No windows we can open. No PPE. No social distancing. Desks, chairs and keyboards in use 24/7.

We've been working normal shifts right through and the sickness levels aren't any higher than usual

Armi · 14/08/2020 21:59

@SengaStrawberry

Would all secondary kids in face coverings help? Not ideal but better than schools being closed
Yes.
Mistressiggi · 14/08/2020 21:59

@AllWashedOut that Tes article on Sweden talks about distancing between students and splitting classes so they are more spread out, and doing some learning from home!
It looks nothing like what I will be seeing on Monday!

Nicknacky · 14/08/2020 21:59

itsgettingweird Aww I do remember that now! I hope things are going well for your son now.

covidteacherscotland · 14/08/2020 22:00

Would all secondary kids in face coverings help? Not ideal but better than schools being closed.

Yes. I think young people and their parents might have a bit to say about it but I definitely think it would be safer.

OP posts:
PrivateD00r · 14/08/2020 22:00

[quote covidteacherscotland]@PrivateD00r I have. Several others have. Check again. [/quote]
Nope, no practical solutions. All suggestions were shot down by you. I honestly don't understand what you hoped to gain from this thread. The negativity is astounding! All of this hyperbole REALLY isn't helping anyone.

itsgettingweird · 14/08/2020 22:00

@farfallarocks

Yet again I am so relieved that the teachers at my dc school bear zero resemblance to the lot on here who seem to hate kids and talk of children ‘breathing on them’ like they are some form of alien life force. Imagine any other public service talking like this. Care homes, doctors . Get a grip ffs
My gp triage by phone and you get in 1 at a time. You wear a mask and so do they.

So yes, they do actually decide who dies and doesn't breathe in them and how and when.

sunseekin · 14/08/2020 22:00

@Armi

We don’t want thing to be ‘shut down forever‘. We want school open but we don’t want to work in an unsafe environment. Why is it so difficult for some people to understand this? It’s dreadfully upsetting to read post after post, thread after thread of vitriol directed at my profession (it’s impossible not to take it personally after a while). We want to do our jobs, but we want to do our jobs safely. It’s really not difficult, surely, to understand that being in an unventilated room with 34 young adult, none of whom are wearing masks, is a high risk working environment?

I’m amazed at the wilful stupidity and general unpleasantness of people. I really am.

It’s a minority. A list minority who are probably having an even crapper time at the moment. Please let it be water off a ducks back.

I have often thought how fortunate it is that it’s the students results, successes and development that motivate me. Yes it’s nice to get a thank you letter from a parent or recognition from colleagues but it’s those moments when you k ow you’ve made a different that really matter.

Try and see it as people not being learner ready. You can’t teach people who aren’t ready to learn. So many of us are 100% behind you.

Some people can learn in theory, some people have to see things happen. I really hope that the unions step up and sort things out ahead of September, numbers are at least generally better in Scotland I think (not saying it’s ok, protection should be the same for workers in other jobs at the very least). And I don’t believe that the science on children as asymptomatic carriers etc could change again.

Uhoh2020 · 14/08/2020 22:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MarshaBradyo · 14/08/2020 22:01

Nearer 1 in 20000 in Scotland just now

This is somewhat comforting to know

Mistressiggi · 14/08/2020 22:01

Nicola today said we should act as if the virus was in the room with us.
Confused

Illegitiminoncarborundum · 14/08/2020 22:02

@Uhoh2020
I hope that's a weird joke.

itsgettingweird · 14/08/2020 22:04

[quote 10storeylovesong]@itsgettingweird police in Manchester were told for about 3 hours to wear masks in cars tigether, until they realised how many masks that would require. We were also told to change them every 2 hours until, again, the cost arose and it became every 6 hours. We started to fit officers for ffp3 masks until we realised how many were failing the fit test and scrapped them. They never made the streets. Officers are currently being pulled in on their rest days to sit in carriers with 6-7 officers at a time to attend covid breaches.

My niece is a mental health nurse. Patients on those wards are known for respecting social distancing, not spitting or fighting, and following guidelines. She caught it on the ward, so hopefully has some immunity now.

My DH is a community mental health worker. He has been provided with masks and is encouraged to wear them. However he works with teenagers, and the mental health crisis has sharply risen. He works for a crisis team and attends when the teens feel suicidal. They will not engage with people wearing masks so he makes the decision (with their parents consent) to not wear them a lot of the time. Yes, that's his choice and I understand that's different, but what a decision that is - wear a mask to protect yourself and walk away knowing you haven't done the best to protect that young person, or do your job to the best of your ability?

My dad who is 65 works in a factory. He has been in work throughout the pandemic. He has no PPE and no measures put in place. He is currently working in conditions which are 40 degrees plus, so they've put a load of fans in to blow the stale hot air around.

Again, I'm not racing to the bottom.. A lot of my friends are teachers and I know how worried they are, and fully support any measures to ease their concern and keep them safe. But please stop throwing around the fact that all professions apart from teachers are protected, as it is blatantly not true.[/quote]
Way to misinterpret what I said.

If you read back I said it's odd how devolved nations seemed to vary in rules for different public sector departments.

Then went on to thank the poster for support they'd given me and note I know they are to be trusted in what they say.

As I'm neither an officer or a teacher I literally have no procession race to the bottom to be had with either profession.

I am sorry though that your health and safety was placed as a lower priority due to cost. That is wrong imo.

I've said it loads of times but I thinks it's a disgrace the government will pay for people to eat out but refuse a budget for protective equipment for public facing civil servants.

sunseekin · 14/08/2020 22:05

[quote covidteacherscotland]@sunseekin absolutely correct. Every parent or child I have seen or spoken to has had a big smile from me and an honestly meant welcome back. It has been genuinely great to see them but that doesn't detract from the fact that it's not safe, it's not a proper education and the shit is going to hit the fan one way or another in the not too distant future. [/quote]
I really feel for you, thanks for posting, it’s so obvious you really care and your students are very lucky to have you. I bet all you wanted to do tonight was try and forget for a couple of days. I hope you get a decent break this weekend.

solidaritea · 14/08/2020 22:05

[quote AllWashedOut]@Mistressiggi - this should reassure you:

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-19/covid-s-spread-in-schools-is-questioned-in-latest-nordic-study

Here's how Sweden make it work: www.tes.com/news/have-swedish-schools-really-carried-normal[/quote]
Did you read the links you gave? Here are some quotes from the second one.

social distancing rules apply in schools.

The split classes mean that learning is also divided – between being in the classroom and learning remotely. This is an arrangement that can be challenging for teachers to manage, Isaksson says, though she believes that it has also forced her to reflect on her practice.

So, blended learning. Not "open as normal."

Also...
Upper secondary schools (which students attend for three years between the ages of 16 and 19) are an exception here; these schools have been closed since the start of the crisis.

So, not open as normal.

Everyone follows the recommendations. All staff meetings are online and so are other meetings as well.

So, not open as normal. My school has a full staff meeting on 1st September.

Mistressiggi · 14/08/2020 22:06

I have reported uhoh's contribution to the thread.

Uhoh2020 · 14/08/2020 22:06

@Illegitiminoncarborundum sarcasm because it seems the only spread according to these many threads are from children alone

SengaStrawberry · 14/08/2020 22:07

I thought the part time for at least the first part of term was a good idea. The problem was the patchiness in what councils were able to provide. We were lucky in that ours would have been in 2.5 days a week. Some authorities could only do kids in 1 day a week even for kids in exam years. That’s totally hopeless. And the blended learning wouldn’t have been done to any extent. That’s not a criticism but rather an understanding that a teacher can’t split themselves multiple ways to provide that plus teach twice the amount of classes.

Honestly I am apprehensive about it as well but seriously we are not in the same position as March where it was running rife unchecked and estimates of people with it were far, far, far higher than now. 1 in 20000 people in Scotland are estimated to have it now and we are doing much more testing and contact tracing to keep on top of outbreaks. I really don’t see that it’s the massive risk people seem to think.

Of course there may still be cases and of course it’s not risk free but nothing is ever going to be until such time as the virus basically fucks off, which isn’t happening.

Armi · 14/08/2020 22:07

@sunseekin

Thanks for your measured response.

PrivateD00r · 14/08/2020 22:07

OK so now we are getting somewhere. OP would like pupils to wear face coverings. Only took 13 pages to get there! In the country I am in, it was announced today that pupils and teachers may wear coverings if they choose. One local school has announced they will be compulsory for all. I suspect many more schools will follow suit. OP, have you contacted your union asking could they push for this, if its something that you want? Have you written to your MP? A 13 page post on MN finally getting to the point isn't likely to help!

neveradullmoment99 · 14/08/2020 22:08

@covidteacherscotland

We are allowed to wear PPE but it is my understanding that masks only work if everyone wears them.

Not sure if there are better masks that are protective on their own but we certainly don't have access to them.

Yes there are protective masks but no one can hear you speak through them, or so I have heard!
sunseekin · 14/08/2020 22:08

[quote Armi]@sunseekin

Thanks for your measured response.[/quote]
Glad you made sense of it! - sorry it was riddled with typos and errors 😬

Uhoh2020 · 14/08/2020 22:08

@Mistressiggi

I have reported uhoh's contribution to the thread.
its called sarcasm!
itsgettingweird · 14/08/2020 22:08

@Nicknacky

itsgettingweird Aww I do remember that now! I hope things are going well for your son now.
He's due to get his gcse results next week. All things considered that will be fun!

But yes he's doing amazing thankyou. Lots of therapy due to his autism not to be fearful everyone will have a knife but an amazing school who worked so hard and so much support from police and teachers on here to help me navigate it whilst and get through the emotions whilst keeping a positive face on for ds.

He actually has cyber crime within police force as one of his career options.

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