School return will fail

[covidteacherscotland]

Okay so we have been back to school for a week! Great? No. Definitely not. Some thoughts on why this will be a disaster:

16 and 17 year olds are not children.

Social distancing is impossible. Genuinely impossible. Children will not or cannot stay out your space.

There is no PPE in school at all and staff are not protected in any way.

Children don't give a shit about washing their hands.

We've been doing double periods instead of single to minimise movement. This means that we are stuck in a room with 30 17 year olds with few or no windows as the respiratory droplets add up.

Educating your child is impossible if you can't go near them.

Our time management and pupil progress relies on us being able to give feedback to children formatively as we teach. To mark jotters as we go. We can't do this now.

I think that because infection is so low we'll be okay for a while - a few weeks - then the shit will hit the fan.

I've had the misfortune to be a regular hospital visitor recently. All visitors in face coverings, all staff in masks, patients not in masks but tested for Covid on admission.

It is lovely to read some supportive posts on here and teachers really do store these positive thoughts away in our minds for times when things are getting to us, thank you

Swedish scientist on Radio 4 the other evening stated that Sweden now has extensive data sets from all sectors of the population. That, for example, cab drivers, are at increased risk of getting covid because of closed proximity with customers, but that teachers are at no increased risk. I think schools should fully reopen taking sensible measures such as hand washing.

I have not said they are lazy bastards. Not at all. But I have said that they need to go back to work. Whether they are not going back to work because they are lazy is not for me to say. I doubt that's the case.

I haven't seen any parents being blasé re health of their kids. I for one have looked at the published risk to children which is minimal and am comfortable. If my child catches Covid at school so be it. The risk of that is minimal. The risk of mental health issues, serious academic failure, etc etc is fair greater. I think most parents feel that way now.

Allwashedout can you explain how people in a taxi can pass the disease onwards but people in a school cannot? I see more pupils in a day than any taxi driver sees fares.
Are we back to "children can't get coronavirus"? As I think we're well past that now.

But I have said that they need to go back to work. Whether they are not going back to work because they are lazy is not for me to say. I doubt that's the case.

We never left work, thanks.

@Mistressiggi @AllWashedOut I'm going to guess that teachers are at no greater risk because when the research was carried out the schools were locked down?

Someone will be along to tell you Swedish schools didn't close. They didn't entirely, but they closed to pupils over 14. That's quite a lot not in, and the ones of most concern to me!

@Nicknacky

itsgettingweird None of our officers are wearing masks while on patrol or inside offices.

I’m certainly not and there has been no guidance in Scotland to do so.

Seems guidance varies a lot across devolved nations then.

Our teaching staff aren't allowed visors and face masks. Yours can.

Our police wore PPE and yours didn't.

One thing I do know is when those who keep shouting at public sector workers who are fighting increasing cuts and higher demands get their wish they are going to be the first in line to complain.

And last in line with their CV!

And I know how respected you are and dedicated because you probably don't remember me but you helped me loads when my son had a knife pulled on him in a classroom and was too anxious to attend school and LS wanted to fine me for unauthorised absence! You helped me navigate and understand the police reactions and interpret what they were telling me.

Well, I am also worried about the return to school. And I don’t think it will last...Not Worried much about primary aged children but all the parents/teachers who may get in contact at drop off/pick up (a one way system/staggered drop off/collection sounds good but not when you have 100s of adults in close proximity). Also worried about secondary aged children who seem to react to the virus much like adults....

I worked with covid positive patients in hospital and no one had an N95 mask unless aerosol generating procedures, we just had those paper surgical masks anyone can buy now, this is the same for nearly all carers. Do you really think care workers are getting N95 masks? and covid patients never wear masks so the risk of transmission is high when giving personal care. I did get fit tested for the N95 mask and they are really uncomfortable. No masks offer 100 percent protection, there is always a risk.

Yet again I am so relieved that the teachers at my dc school bear zero resemblance to the lot on here who seem to hate kids and talk of children ‘breathing on them’ like they are some form of alien life force. Imagine any other public service talking like this. Care homes, doctors . Get a grip ffs

I’m not sure why people keep going on about this. Kids need to get an education. I’m beginning to think some people just want everything to be shut down forever.

@stairway I'm so shocked at that! 😮

@allMistressiggi - I haven't checked the stats. You could if you are concerned. The kids get covid, said the scientist, but very often with little to no symptoms. Yes, it can be transmitted by asymptomatics but far less than someone with symptoms (viral load). I believe other countries have been making the same observations. Schools are no more dangerous that supermarkets.

Sweden had a light to no lockdown, but people have been better following government advice that we were in the beginning.

@SengaStrawberry no not shut would just like some basic thought and effort to have gone into providing a safer working environment for teachers.

Allwashedout- in Sweden 16-18 year olds are not at school and are learning online.

@itsgettingweird police in Manchester were told for about 3 hours to wear masks in cars tigether, until they realised how many masks that would require. We were also told to change them every 2 hours until, again, the cost arose and it became every 6 hours. We started to fit officers for ffp3 masks until we realised how many were failing the fit test and scrapped them. They never made the streets. Officers are currently being pulled in on their rest days to sit in carriers with 6-7 officers at a time to attend covid breaches.

My niece is a mental health nurse. Patients on those wards are known for respecting social distancing, not spitting or fighting, and following guidelines. She caught it on the ward, so hopefully has some immunity now.

My DH is a community mental health worker. He has been provided with masks and is encouraged to wear them. However he works with teenagers, and the mental health crisis has sharply risen. He works for a crisis team and attends when the teens feel suicidal. They will not engage with people wearing masks so he makes the decision (with their parents consent) to not wear them a lot of the time. Yes, that's his choice and I understand that's different, but what a decision that is - wear a mask to protect yourself and walk away knowing you haven't done the best to protect that young person, or do your job to the best of your ability?

My dad who is 65 works in a factory. He has been in work throughout the pandemic. He has no PPE and no measures put in place. He is currently working in conditions which are 40 degrees plus, so they've put a load of fans in to blow the stale hot air around.

Again, I'm not racing to the bottom.. A lot of my friends are teachers and I know how worried they are, and fully support any measures to ease their concern and keep them safe. But please stop throwing around the fact that all professions apart from teachers are protected, as it is blatantly not true.

Yet again I am so relieved that the teachers at my dc school bear zero resemblance to the lot on here who seem to hate kids and talk of children ‘breathing on them’ like they are some form of alien life force. Imagine any other public service talking like this. Care homes, doctors . Get a grip ffs

Yes because the teachers at your DC school are going to tell you exactly what's on their mind at the drop off

I suspect Swedish classrooms are bigger with less pupils so some distancing can be maintained.

@farfallarocks

Yet again I am so relieved that the teachers at my dc school bear zero resemblance to the lot on here who seem to hate kids and talk of children ‘breathing on them’ like they are some form of alien life force. Imagine any other public service talking like this. Care homes, doctors . Get a grip ffs

You don't know we're not. Any one of us could be your dc's teacher. I wouldn't communicate my worries to you as a parent, you'd see my happy smiley self.

@netflixismysidehustle

I suspect Swedish classrooms are bigger with less pupils so some distancing can be maintained.

They are, massively so.

But some people will refuse to entertain that little bit of truth

[quote covidteacherscotland]@SengaStrawberry no not shut would just like some basic thought and effort to have gone into providing a safer working environment for teachers. [/quote]
Ok I will try one last time. What do you actually want?? I really wish a teacher on here would give an honest answer to this. If there was anything I could do personally to help teachers in my dc school feel safer, I would do it in a heartbeat!

Can you give a constructive solution to your concerns?

@10storeylovesong you are racing to the bottom.

In none of those examples, apart from your father's, are 31 adults sitting in rooms with varying ventilation together for nearly two hours.

I don't know what's so hard to grasp about this.

If your father's factory are doing nothing to mitigate COVID then they need reporting. The government and PHE have stepped in to several similar examples down south.

Are we really at a stage now where we are saying teachers need to get on with it because those unscrupulous factory workers are making their staff do it?

[quote covidteacherscotland]**@Mistressiggi* @AllWashedOut* I'm going to guess that teachers are at no greater risk because when the research was carried out the schools were locked down?

[/quote]
Exactly.

It sounds really hard. And with no ppe or social distancing, really unfair.

I honestly can’t believe it’s happening like this. It’s very very unfair.

Take care, teachers do an amazing job. It feels like everyone has a view on teaching - most people went to school and loads of people had that one teacher that scared them etc.

I’ve worked with such amazing teachers who went into it because they care about a fair society, getting the best out of children and their subjects. It’s wrong how little protection you are being offered. Take care.

No maybe not but I can pick up on an attitude. Teachers on MN have a persecution issue and think they are the only profession exposed at this time. They are rude and sarcastic. I have been told to ‘ talk to someone who cares’ on here. It’s all a bit grim.