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Covid

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Original poster

Have we reached our limit or not?

59 replies

CKBJ · 14/08/2020 13:51

It was only a couple of weeks ago we were being told we had reached our limit in opening things up and possibly opened too much. There was talk of closing pubs and non essential retail to allow schools to reopen. What’s changed? Have I missed something? Tomorrow more things will be allowed to open and the restart of the trial of audiences watching sport, etc. I haven’t seen anyone in the media question the science behind the latest unlocking and where is the opposition party? Far too quiet. It seem all the government wants to do is divert from the exam fiasco and the new quarantine measures!

OP posts:

mum2jakie · 14/08/2020 14:37

Hospital admissions are down, deaths are down, the economy is buggered. We literally can't afford not to reopen as much as possible and get money flowing back in circulation paying for all the Covid costs!

Willbob · 14/08/2020 15:28

@CKBJ I'm with you. I just don't see how the numbers could have dropped do much to make that much of a difference.

I'm wondering if they are letting businesses get some cash flow before they have to close some again for schools.

Was there a press conference? If so did Chris Whitty attend?

nudelipstick · 14/08/2020 15:31

We should stay at home for several decades until every disease is eradicated.

BogRollBOGOF · 14/08/2020 16:17

What hasn't changed significantly is the rate of hospital admissions or deaths. We're finding more cases because we know where we are looking. The systems are working. The majority are not serious and are not of themselves causing a social problem, in the same way that we don't shut down society for colds and sniffles.

We don't want the virus going through places of mass vulnerability like old people's homes, but compared to 6 months ago, much of society has had a better chance of exposure and reduced vulnerability.

Ultimately if we crash the economy too far, and we are already in recession, that means less tax to pay into the NHS, more unemployment, and more poverty which will be a bigger killer overall.

KitKatastrophe · 14/08/2020 16:22

@mum2jakie

Yes the government cant keep paying furlough forever and the economy is failing. And before someone chimes in with the old "prioritising money over lives" - hospitalizations and deaths from covid are currently at an all time low (flu is causing more deaths than covid now). If we dont get money back in the economy and stop paying more and more out, there will be no NHS to protect.

netflixismysidehustle · 14/08/2020 16:42

On 31st July it looked like cases might be rising but in the last 2 weeks the number of infections appears to have plateaued hence opening things again.

Nellodee · 14/08/2020 16:49

But we have been opening more and more things continuously... how could cases have risen then dropped? What was open in July that isn't open in August? I can't think of a single thing.

Bol87 · 14/08/2020 16:54

These easing of restrictions are localised. I’m in a supposed ‘hot spot’ & the further easing isn’t going ahead. It’s only happening where cases are low..

annabel85 · 14/08/2020 16:55

With regards to the flu deaths higher than Covid, I thought flu was a winter virus.

SengaStrawberry · 14/08/2020 17:32

It might not be the optimum scientifically but unlike Chris Whitty most people don’t have the luxury of only taking account of the science. Things need to open and if cases increase then that’s just to be expected as long as the NHS doesn’t end up overwhelmed. We can’t keep everything shut or there won’t be much to come back to post pandemic. However I suspect it’s a matter of letting businesses make hay while the sun shines and if numbers go out of control things will quickly shut again.

NothingIsWrong · 14/08/2020 17:48

@annabel85

With regards to the flu deaths higher than Covid, I thought flu was a winter virus.

Flu kills year round, just more so in winter. At the moment it's killing 2-3 more times people than Covid.

Hmmph · 14/08/2020 17:58

Flu kills year round, just more so in winter. At the moment it's killing 2-3 more times people than Covid.

Is it? Who? Surely flu kills the very old and vulnerable who are currently being extra protected from Covid so how are they catching flu?

Original poster

CKBJ · 14/08/2020 18:02

That’s obviously positive news if the cases are not increasing in the general population (according to ONS) and more things can open up. Months ago we were 3weeks behind countries like Italy I’m hoping we are not 3weeks behind the likes of France, Spain etc now. Also these businesses can remain open-stop and start, opening and closing is no good.

OP posts:

annabel85 · 14/08/2020 18:10

@Hmmph

Flu kills year round, just more so in winter. At the moment it's killing 2-3 more times people than Covid.

Is it? Who? Surely flu kills the very old and vulnerable who are currently being extra protected from Covid so how are they catching flu?

Given masks, social distancing, restrictions, increased hygiene and awareness and the vulnerable shielding - it seems mad that thousands are still dying from the flu every month (and more than Covid).

KitKatastrophe · 14/08/2020 18:12

@Hmmph

Flu kills year round, just more so in winter. At the moment it's killing 2-3 more times people than Covid.

Is it? Who? Surely flu kills the very old and vulnerable who are currently being extra protected from Covid so how are they catching flu?

Flu does mainly kill elderly and vulnerable, as does covid. They both also kill a small minority of young and healthy people. They also transmit in the same way. Although we are told that covid is not flu, there are a number of similarities.

Flu transmission is lower than usual at this time of year, but still higher than covid transmission and deaths. There are a few explanations:

track and trace working well
covid less virulent than expected
covid less deadly than expected
herd immunity beginning
t cell immunity

What is certain is that social distancing and masks arent making the difference because they would work against covid too.

KitKatastrophe · 14/08/2020 18:15

*against flu too, sorry

Willow2017 · 14/08/2020 18:24

@annabel85

With regards to the flu deaths higher than Covid, I thought flu was a winter virus.

No it's present all year round. Summer flu is a thing and it's caused many more deaths than covid in the past month. Funnily enough that hasn't made the media headlines 🤔 But nobody wants to know there are other things out there that can kill you and have been doing so for years. Distancing and mask wearing don't seem to be stopping flu.

SengaStrawberry · 14/08/2020 18:27

I read at the start of all this that apparently distancing measures and masks aren’t as useful in stopping flu as it’s got a much shorter incubation period and people aren’t infectious until they’re symptomatic, and by that time are generally at home unwell.

Nellodee · 14/08/2020 18:29

I'm very interested in the figures for summer flu, Willow2017. Can you direct me to where you got your stats from, please?

KitKatastrophe · 14/08/2020 18:38

Google "flu deaths higher than covid" and it is reported in a number of media outlets - the sun, mirror, spectator, week all have an article on it.

For more raw stats have a look on gov.uk at the "weekly national flu reports" www.gov.uk/government/statistics/weekly-national-flu-reports-2019-to-2020-season

SheepandCow · 14/08/2020 18:45

I'm interested in the summer flu numbers too. I'd also be interested to know how many heart attacks, strokes, and blood clot related deaths. Is it more than the usual July/August figures? Covid can cause these conditions.

If the plan is boosting the economy before possibly closing again for schools and/or a winter second wave, wouldn't it have been better to have done it in June? We're nearing the end of summer now.

KitKatastrophe · 14/08/2020 18:46

@SheepandCow

If the plan is boosting the economy before possibly closing again for schools and/or a winter second wave, wouldn't it have been better to have done it in June? We're nearing the end of summer now.

All cause deaths have been below the 5y year average for quite some time now.

Nellodee · 14/08/2020 18:51

Sorry, KitKatastrophe, I think you've linked me to the wrong figures. Those ones said that out of 211 specimens reported for testing, none tested positive for influenza and that out of 229 respiratory outbreaks, 161 were Covid.

Hearwego · 14/08/2020 18:54

We should stay locked down.
Millions of jobs will be lost. Young people will have not be able to find a first job, including graduates.
People getting abused for not wearing a mask in a supermarket. People dying of unrelated illnesses due to not being a lie to get tested or treated.
Everyone suffering from some form of mental health due to living like this.
Education for millions of young people lost and damaged beyond repair for some.
Let’s destroy our economy even more and carry on with this madness.

MarshaBradyo · 14/08/2020 18:54

Did numbers change since that announcement?

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