All this "Tiny crammed school room" stuff

[palacegirl77]

Just wondering why we havent had the teachers unions on this in a big scale before. On nearly every thread I see on here we hear about teachers being in "Tiny, crammed rooms" no windows - sometimes no daylight - so many kids they cant walk without knocking into each other. Not enough cleaners, it not being sanitary, germs spreading like wildfire (wasnt this an issue before covid with other illnesses such as norovirus etc?) Why are so many teachers happy to work in such horrible conditions? Why arent parents told about how awful it is and why arent we all signing petitions and asking for schools to be rebuilt? Did it take this pandemic to wake us all up? Is it really that bad?

The flip side is parents would also be concerned at a school being too roomy. We had this secondary nearby whose catchment area included roughest part of town and parents avoided it like the plague so it had 100s of surplus places.

Overcrowding at secondary school is seen as normal, many of the parents will remember it from their own schooldays. Unpleasant yes but given that the choice is either another overcrowded school or a sink school that people avoid what can you do?

@noblegiraffe

we don't tell parents because they don't care, and anyway we'd lose our funding

No, schools don’t tell their prospective parents because they need bums on seats and they don’t tell their current parents because they’re not allowed to express political opinions.

So you get teachers on MN trying their hardest to tell parents who think everything is fine at their school (it isn’t) therefore those teachers are just whingers. No one listens to the unions or teachers in the media because the government has successfully made them toxic by a decade-long concerted media campaign. (‘Enemies of promise’ and ‘The Blob’ under Gove were a particular low-point only rivalled by the current media kicking suggesting we’re neglecting our moral duty).

And again it’s our fault. Not the shitty government’s fault for actually creating the mess, but ours for somehow not being loud enough in a system designed to drown us out.

Agree.

And the scary point that Cummings was gives advisor. He's now Boris'. So education will continue to be screwed as he's got his chance to cock it up even more.

@noblegiraffe

we don't tell parents because they don't care, and anyway we'd lose our funding

No, schools don’t tell their prospective parents because they need bums on seats and they don’t tell their current parents because they’re not allowed to express political opinions.

So you get teachers on MN trying their hardest to tell parents who think everything is fine at their school (it isn’t) therefore those teachers are just whingers. No one listens to the unions or teachers in the media because the government has successfully made them toxic by a decade-long concerted media campaign. (‘Enemies of promise’ and ‘The Blob’ under Gove were a particular low-point only rivalled by the current media kicking suggesting we’re neglecting our moral duty).

And again it’s our fault. Not the shitty government’s fault for actually creating the mess, but ours for somehow not being loud enough in a system designed to drown us out.

So its been said that teachers dont tell parents, that they actively cover up bad walls or bad windows to get us to send our children there - but there is no responsibility with this? Im really shocked by this. Are there no whistle blowers? I remember the teachers strikes a couple of years ago but only because a few friends schools were closed - my daughters school never closed and no teachers marched - again is this because are school is on the whole ok?

I dont think on any level anyone could argue that this isnt the Govs fault. Of course it is - but when you look at the black lives matter protests I just wonder why we arent all up in arms about it - where are the undercover panorama programmes, or whistle blowers?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3739292-Tories-to-continue-to-run-schools-into-the-ground

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3756342-Teacher-recruitment-targets-missed-AGAIN-Don-t-ask-who-is-teaching-your-kid-maths-or-physics

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3469364-DfE-admits-teacher-supply-has-worsened-wants-TAs-to-become-teachers

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_staffroom/3521935-DfE-says-sort-school-budgets-by-cracking-down-on-colour-printing

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3572505-Experienced-teachers-booted-out-to-save-money-replaced-with-NQTs

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_staffroom/3601747-Deteriorating-behaviour-and-lack-of-support-bringing-the-profession-to-its-knees

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3941702-Annoyed-your-kid-isn-t-having-zoom-lessons-or-school-contact-or-not-going-back-to-school-yet

A small selection of the threads I’ve posted in the last year or two.

It isn’t just the classrooms that are in terrible state.

Thanks will have a look - as I said genuinely only look in here or DIY sections. Will have a read.

There are lots of opportunities to become a school governor by the way, then you can share in the sense of futile desperation about funding

but when you look at the black lives matter protests I just wonder why we arent all up in arms about it -

why aren't you up in arms about it?

Its been proved by this thread and others that teachers are telling you what is going on.

Is it because it only affects you through your children and even then for a small amount of your time?

Its only kicked off now because teachers have once again brought up over crowding in the classroom, you can't honestly tell me that if if wasn't for that you would care about it?

I whistleblew on my last academy trust. The directors were awarding building contracts to their relatives and partners, the work was expensive and shoddy. Funnily enough it ended my career at that particular trust and despite being investigated and proven true, they didn't even get a slap on the wrist.

I thought everyone knew but had just tuned us out because we are ‘moaning teachers’.

The story government went to war with the unions and won over pensions. This made the unions totally toothless as a result. We don’t strike anymore because it is always a huge own goal. The government have everyone convinced that teachers are lazy, feckless moaners who do nothing all holiday and still get paid.

And lots of the public are happy to buy into this.

The result is crumbling school buildings not big enough to cope with swelling pupil number; schools in massive debt because they cannot pay for the staffing costs the government foists on them (the recent pay rises are the best example); a profession with low morale and terrible recruitment and retention.

At the moment 25% of those who start teacher training don’t finish. Of those who do only 50% last past the second year of teaching.

The education system has been in it’s knees for a while now and we have been talking about it. But our voices are now quite small because most voters don’t want to hear us speak.

Our school has classrooms smaller than the minimum acceptable size and have sought grant funding to extend them several times. This has always been turned down. The school doesn't have that kind of money.

@FrippEnos

but when you look at the black lives matter protests I just wonder why we arent all up in arms about it -

why aren't you up in arms about it?

Its been proved by this thread and others that teachers are telling you what is going on.

Is it because it only affects you through your children and even then for a small amount of your time?

Its only kicked off now because teachers have once again brought up over crowding in the classroom, you can't honestly tell me that if if wasn't for that you would care about it?

Blimey. Bit harsh. Yes I am very concerned. I dont have personal experience of it as my kids school is large, not massive class sizes, they have a teacher and a TA. The staff seem happy. Its clean and a nice environment. No, I naively didnt know how bad it was and I am very very worried about my daughter starting secondary school now and being poisoned with asbestos. That ok?

@BelleSausage

I thought everyone knew but had just tuned us out because we are ‘moaning teachers’.

The story government went to war with the unions and won over pensions. This made the unions totally toothless as a result. We don’t strike anymore because it is always a huge own goal. The government have everyone convinced that teachers are lazy, feckless moaners who do nothing all holiday and still get paid.

And lots of the public are happy to buy into this.

The result is crumbling school buildings not big enough to cope with swelling pupil number; schools in massive debt because they cannot pay for the staffing costs the government foists on them (the recent pay rises are the best example); a profession with low morale and terrible recruitment and retention.

At the moment 25% of those who start teacher training don’t finish. Of those who do only 50% last past the second year of teaching.

The education system has been in it’s knees for a while now and we have been talking about it. But our voices are now quite small because most voters don’t want to hear us speak.

Its really sad Im feeling very worried about secondary now.

palacegirl77

Harsh. Yes, but you wanted honest.

If you want to really know the situation with asbestos, you should ask to see the schools map of asbestos.

@palacegirl77

Good, be worried. Write to your MP. Do not swallow their bollocks about ‘school funding being better than ever’ and ‘better funding formulas’. It’s smoke and mirrors.

Staff will always do as much as they can to stop these cuts having an impact on learning but there is only so much we can do: we give free time, buy resources and, in some cases, provide uniform and food for children.

I reckon if staff stopped giving so much and actually did the only thing we have left, which is work to rule, the whole system would come down.

But most teachers would never consider it because it would affect the students.

This is the only school I've worked in without asbestos in my classroom.

but there is no responsibility with this? Im really shocked by this. Are there no whistle blowers? I remember the teachers strikes a couple of years ago but only because a few friends schools were closed - my daughters school never closed and no teachers marched - again is this because are school is on the whole ok?

Yes there is responsibility. But 'we' as a collective can't moan when we work in the school. We just can't. It's about professional something or other. We'd just try and move schools if it was extraordinarily bad, but would expect some of the same elsewhere.

Yes to whistleblowers. We're the ones moving schools mid year after nothing got done about what we questioned.

Your school is probably not OK. Most schools are not OK. See @noblegiraffe above.

Not all unions support striking, teachers might be a member of a striking union, then might not. I've been on strike twice, neither time did the school actually close. Even people in the striking union might not be able to afford to have an unpaid day 'off'.

@Shalliornot I did that! Now the finance link governor, it can be very depressing.

But many schools are crying out for governors so if anyone on MN feels you can give the time please volunteer. You will then find out the truth behind the Government and media spin.

Schools have been talking about this for years, OP!

It’s become the norm. Every primary school I’ve worked in has been deeply overcrowded. It surprises me that the
General public don’t realise that having 30 children in rooms not a dissimilar size to your living room is pretty darn squeezed. It, of course, also leads to behaviour problems as everyone falls over each other with no personal space. It would improve the quality of education no end to have double the room sizes. Obviously as schools have needed to expand they have often used what we’re overflow spaces - libraries, painting areas, shared areas....

*were

There was the Labour building schools for the future programme that aimed to team good architecture and schools and provide a lot of jobs while tackling issues of space and rooms but the tories knocked it on the head with the austerity hammer.

Yes, knocking the Building Schools for the Future programme on the head was about the first action the DfE took when the 2010 government took power.

If unions get "up in arms" about anything, the DM and it's ilk get straight on ranting about Unions and the 1970s to whip up public opinion. The bizarre attitudes to unionisation in this country are why we have such increasingly shitty workers' rights.

Schools have been talking about this for years, OP!
Yes! But not everyone is included in school- world! It's public sector echo chambers,you get it in the NHS too. All the teachers I know talk in school jargon all the time ( it's actually incomprehensible to civilians) and think everyone knows the things they do.
If you work in a bank, for example, and you go and see your kids high school at open day (which is the first and last time you will see a classroom) it would not occur to.you to try and see how far the windows open, or search up an asbestos map.....
You can't tell parents they are " part of the problem,"and deride them for believing what schools tell them while simultaneously papering the cracks to get the admissions number s up.
I am actually changing my DC school to an undersubscribed one because it's a small school and seems to have good staff btw. I still haven't checked it for asbestos I will put that on my to do list....

Palace because when there have been marches or people have been requested to strike it's always met with the same old backlash.

Teachers don't care about students or they'd be in school teaching.

They get 13 weeks holiday a year.

I can't take my child out for a day but teachers can strike.

Teachers are lazy - everywhere has had cut backs.

Basically apply all you see here when they are fighting for better conditions and safety measures for your child when school opens to any school situation and the narrative doesn't change.
Just the initial problem.

@palacegirl77

This

www.tes.com/news/teachers-march-downing-street-level-protest?fbclid=IwAR2yAvB6hWU2Okl5JJQMpEM8vwLAf4TPOmic5u6lsDddJ7KrCBEHCK4Falg

Happened today

Its not been in any of the main papers that I have seen or the tv.

This should tell you what you need to know about a country that is 'putting education first'

[quote FrippEnos]**@palacegirl77

This

www.tes.com/news/teachers-march-downing-street-level-protest?fbclid=IwAR2yAvB6hWU2Okl5JJQMpEM8vwLAf4TPOmic5u6lsDddJ7KrCBEHCK4Falg

Happened today

Its not been in any of the main papers that I have seen or the tv.

This should tell you what you need to know about a country that is 'putting education first'[/quote]
This was on the news tonight. I less I'm wrong this was in relation to the exam results? Not school buildings?

@palacegirl77
Right now it’s about picking battles and the exam results situation is a travesty. Shouting about that might bring about change.

Teachers shouting out for more money for buildings, less so! We need parents, grandparents, young people to rise up and vote for a party that will fund education properly.