All this "Tiny crammed school room" stuff

[palacegirl77]

Just wondering why we havent had the teachers unions on this in a big scale before. On nearly every thread I see on here we hear about teachers being in "Tiny, crammed rooms" no windows - sometimes no daylight - so many kids they cant walk without knocking into each other. Not enough cleaners, it not being sanitary, germs spreading like wildfire (wasnt this an issue before covid with other illnesses such as norovirus etc?) Why are so many teachers happy to work in such horrible conditions? Why arent parents told about how awful it is and why arent we all signing petitions and asking for schools to be rebuilt? Did it take this pandemic to wake us all up? Is it really that bad?

I'm too busy moaning about the other things, like the fact I don't have enough work books for every child so they write on scrap paper. Or the fact I've run out of pencils and the school can't afford to order more.

Gave up teaching a few years ago when I had my third child. Was a year 5/6 teacher for 13 years before that.

Theres a board up in the staff room where notices are put. About 75% of them were scabies in year 2, slapped cheek year 4 etc

The worst year was when I and my partner teacher had 38 in each of our classes because they didnt have another teacher to make a third class who could handle the behaviour. That was a treat. Bruised thighs for me and the teaching assistants they threw at us to try and make it work. Cramped wasn't the word.
Who the hell were we going to complain to? We were trying to make it through each day with pupils happy and making progress. Funny enough that took most of our time

Even reading your post title with its patronising air quotes is enough to give me the rage.

Kudos to all teachers doing their best still in increasingly difficult circumstances

In my old classroom it used to rain on me through the roof as I sat at my desk and marked books.

We had a few blistering summers and temperatures got up to 38 degrees inside same room. Kids in full uniform, me stuck in there all day.

Who was I meant to tell? Everyone knew.

Oh I also:

• Didn't have enough exercise books for all my kids
• Had to buy all my own display materials for my walls or risk being pulled up on substandard displays
• Bought breakfast bars for hungry children into school
• Never has a set of glue sticks
• was only allowed to print a couple of copies of an extract/exercise/question sheet and we'd get cut off after printing 30 sheets a week.

My shit classroom was seriously low down the list of things I had to ask and advocate for. I remember once as a trainee being told to buy my own whiteboard pens as the department couldn't afford to get me any.

The pfi built schools are a joke. Bil was saying by the time they've paid back the cash borrowed go build it, they'll have paid 5 times as much. Then they'll need a new school.

@Notashandyta

Even reading your post title with its patronising air quotes is enough to give me the rage.

Kudos to all teachers doing their best still in increasingly difficult circumstances

Sorry. I was actually quoting someone that's why I used the quotes. As you can probably see from my other comments I admit to not looking on the rest of MN so no I haven't seen loads of threads on this. I only have experience of my own kids school which is a desirable primary with lots of space I genuinely wanted to offer support to teacher and ask why I could actively do to help. So thanks for the negative comments. This is precisely why I don't use this site much.

If you genuinely wanted to support teachers, why did your OP blame your ignorance of the terrible situation in education on them? That’s obviously going to get backs up.

Where have you been OP?

Unions have also been campaigning for many years about the amount of asbestos still in school buildings.

@noblegiraffe

If you genuinely wanted to support teachers, why did your OP blame your ignorance of the terrible situation in education on them? That’s obviously going to get backs up.

I didn't blame them! I asked why the unions weren't up in arms about it? The only thing I said about teachers was why are they happy to put up with it? How will that change the situation? I also blame the opposition for not hammering this home! If the situation is as bad as many are saying then I will definitely be looking into it and lobbying Olivia Blake my MP (who is labour and also part of the socialist side) - I'd definitely support teachers striking too.

@Figmentofmyimagination

Where have you been OP?

Unions have also been campaigning for many years about the amount of asbestos still in school buildings.

This is what I'm saying. I watch the news everyday. I follow many MPs on Twitter. I take an interest in politics and this is the first I've heard of asbestos! But makes sense! I will be looking into this more (especially as eldest is about to start secondary which I think appears to be where the situation is more dire?)

No teacher is happy to put up with any of it.

It's good you say you'd support striking etc. Part of the problem is not many others do and another factor is a vast majority of teachers dont want to strike, we actually care massively about the pupils in our care and dont want them to miss out on learning time. We want to teach!

Op, have you never been in s school for parents evening, school play, sports day? Surely you can see yourself what the building and accommodation looks like?

The problem is it's normalised to the parents.

We make the classrooms look as nice as possible for the pupils and the parents.

We make the best of a bad job.

'This is what I was getting at I guess. Im sorry if I seem ignorant to it - I dont use MN that often (have used it a lot more since lockdown but only the covid topic really) I will try and have a look at the school stuff. I guess from a parents point of view (my eldest just finished primary and youngest in y2) all I see of school is that the teachers seem happy and have never flagged anything up about size or conditions but I guess they wouldnt with parents. Its worrying.'

You wait til secondary, generally far worse then and even less money to spend on premises than primary schools.
I'm lucky to have a large classroom, but that is because I was in a wheelchair; still didn't have enough space to manoeuvre around to see students though.

I do question whether anyone can really be this naive about the whole school issue? However we most of us we don't see the point in saying anything to parents as none of them are bothered anyway. Key example is you talking about raising a petition...what on earth do you expect to happen with that? You will probably get a pat in the head for raising and then it will be completely ignored. As a pp said, boiling frog.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

Op, have you never been in s school for parents evening, school play, sports day? Surely you can see yourself what the building and accommodation looks like?

Well yes that's what I'm saying - I have and it seems fine to me! That's why I was asking.

@balloonsintrees

'This is what I was getting at I guess. Im sorry if I seem ignorant to it - I dont use MN that often (have used it a lot more since lockdown but only the covid topic really) I will try and have a look at the school stuff. I guess from a parents point of view (my eldest just finished primary and youngest in y2) all I see of school is that the teachers seem happy and have never flagged anything up about size or conditions but I guess they wouldnt with parents. Its worrying.'

You wait til secondary, generally far worse then and even less money to spend on premises than primary schools.
I'm lucky to have a large classroom, but that is because I was in a wheelchair; still didn't have enough space to manoeuvre around to see students though.

I do question whether anyone can really be this naive about the whole school issue? However we most of us we don't see the point in saying anything to parents as none of them are bothered anyway. Key example is you talking about raising a petition...what on earth do you expect to happen with that? You will probably get a pat in the head for raising and then it will be completely ignored. As a pp said, boiling frog.

So we should do nothing? I have 2 kids and didn't know how bad it was how would people without kids or with very young or finished school know. I have only been in to see my daughter's new secondary school once and again it seemed fine BUT obviously this is what the school wants to present I suppose? It's been a real eye opener to read on here what teachers really think. Which as a parent is really worrying.

Because it's now much more of an issue - what with COVID guidelines and everything.
The windows in my classroom haven't opened in years. There is no sink. But there has always been a more pressing need. Now building issues are more at the forefront.

When we did the rounds of secondary schools for dd, the open evenings were so busy that it did feel crowded. There were almost certainly less than half the number of people circulating than there are pupils though. Dd says in some corridors it's so crowded that she can lift her feet off the floor and be carried along.
Head teachers marched on Downing Street a couple of years ago to no avail. That was on the news.

Open evening for Y6 parents -

We put up posters to cover the dodgy bits on the walls.

We spend ages swapping out the graffitied furniture for better stuff from neighbouring classrooms, or at a push turn the desks around so the parents can’t see the penises.

We shut the blinds so they can’t see the state of the windows.

Parent are never allowed in the shittiest classrooms.

And why do we do this? Because we need parents to apply for Y7 places. Schools are now in competition with each other.

And if you don’t get the bums on seats, you lose funding.

So surely that's the point! On the one hand you've got teachers going " we don't tell parents because they don't care, and anyway we'd lose our funding" and on the other parents are stupid for not knowing? (A lot of us do bloody care actually)
The thing is, if you don't know teachers personally, and don't open teaching MN threads, and you just go by what the school and your kids teachers tell you, then you absolutely can miss how bad things are.
I was aware of some of the issues but by no means all. I do happen to know some teachers, so I know a bit.
I am also often surprised by how much contempt teachers hold parents in a lot of the time. Since most parents I know are very supportive of their schools and their children's teachers, but " parents" as a whole are despised, so don't give me the poor us everyone hates us when all I hear about is how shit parents are!

but " parents" as a whole are despised, so don't give me the poor us everyone hates us when all I hear about is how shit parents are!

Where on earth are you getting this from? Most teachers are parents.

I am also often surprised by how much contempt teachers hold parents in a lot of the time

Care to give an example?

we don't tell parents because they don't care, and anyway we'd lose our funding

No, schools don’t tell their prospective parents because they need bums on seats and they don’t tell their current parents because they’re not allowed to express political opinions.

So you get teachers on MN trying their hardest to tell parents who think everything is fine at their school (it isn’t) therefore those teachers are just whingers. No one listens to the unions or teachers in the media because the government has successfully made them toxic by a decade-long concerted media campaign. (‘Enemies of promise’ and ‘The Blob’ under Gove were a particular low-point only rivalled by the current media kicking suggesting we’re neglecting our moral duty).

And again it’s our fault. Not the shitty government’s fault for actually creating the mess, but ours for somehow not being loud enough in a system designed to drown us out.