All this "Tiny crammed school room" stuff

[palacegirl77]

Just wondering why we havent had the teachers unions on this in a big scale before. On nearly every thread I see on here we hear about teachers being in "Tiny, crammed rooms" no windows - sometimes no daylight - so many kids they cant walk without knocking into each other. Not enough cleaners, it not being sanitary, germs spreading like wildfire (wasnt this an issue before covid with other illnesses such as norovirus etc?) Why are so many teachers happy to work in such horrible conditions? Why arent parents told about how awful it is and why arent we all signing petitions and asking for schools to be rebuilt? Did it take this pandemic to wake us all up? Is it really that bad?

Local school near me, one form entry, has had to lose a teacher due to budget constraints, now has mixed year groups throughout the school, some classes up to 35 children

YY to census day.

A couple of years ago I had 24 on census day (early October), by January I had 29. The school doesn't receive any money for those extra 5 children, they only start counting on the next census day.

I'm very surprised that this is a revelation to parents - teachers have been pointing out the lack of money and condition of buildings for quite some time.

I am so beyond depressed that someone can post on Mumsnet that they had no idea that schools were totally screwed.

How many posts. How many threads.

Census day: the day you have to keep the 'really not suitable for A Level' students until before you agree that it's not for them in order to prop up in year admissions in other years which are already full.

a few are terrible but you can’t get rid of them

Yes you can. SLT need the will and competence to do it.

Every time I've seen capability fail it's because SLT have fucked up on process. Then they blame the unions for supporting the member.

My last school (ex teacher) was built in 2009. Brand new everything. Every classroom has an air quality alarm light which goes red if air quality is poor. It is never not lit. The new build briefing talked about the ‘climate control system’... it was “open the windows”. I shit you not. And that is a new build.

Some of the new build schools are okay - large classrooms and lots of storage space. The problem is many schools just throw up another portacabin everytime they need a bit more space and some of them are ridiculously tight on space. There's several at the school I work at that would comfortably seat about 20 (in normal circumstances) but have classes for up to 32 timetabled into them. The problem is it's become normal and as such teacher's don't question it. Plus half the time the new portacabins are replacing predecessors that were so damp, leaky and often infested (we had resident squirrels in one) that no one could possibly complain about the new ones.

A study today suggests the virus is capable of infecting people who are over 5m away from an infected person in an enclosed space. Some of these rooms are going to become absolute breeding grounds for the virus - particularly as many of the windows don't open (health and safety) and they rely on air conditioning units. The evidence the government has collated has come from studies undertaken with the partial return of primary schools, with social distancing and nice weather to go outside lots. Secondary schools with 1000+ kids moving from one lessons to the next is a whole different ball game.

I have no idea why the unions are so quiet. They made a lot of fuss about the phased return in June and seemed to misjudge their members who wanted to see some sort of carefully phased return and now it seems to be a case of once bitten twice shy. Unfortunately, this is the moment where we really need them and they are letting their members down badly. I can see many of them will lose considerable numbers of teachers who just don't see what they are paying £20 a month for. Likewise many teachers (particularly those nearing retirement) will simply leave the profession leaving schools even more short staffed than ever.

@MrsHamlet - that's horrendous!

@palacegirl77
We have mentioned it" - well not to me as a parent? I want to help teachers, I want to do anything I can to make schools better - but why arent they shouting from the rooftops about it if its really not safe for children? Why arent we badgering the Gov on it? Why arent schools getting us to sign petitions etc? I appreciate teachers will be helping Alevel students today. What a mess that whole situation is too.

If we "badger" the government on anything, the Daily Mail, Mumsnet, and BBC HYS Forums, to name but a few, annihilate us. You must surely have seen all the threads since lockdown. I think we have all learnt to shut up about unsafe conditions since generally we get a wave of indignation that everyone else is risking their lives, why shouldn't we?
How big were the classrooms when you were at school?
What do you think has changed?
I'm with @noble giraffe.

My DD's school is large (5 form entry) but as they've built new classrooms they've included toilets. They have large grounds which has made this possible.

[quote UndertheCedartree]@MrsHamlet - that's horrendous![/quote]
Yes. To be fair, it normally takes students who shouldn't have come until then to work it out and find an alternative. And if they meet the entry requirements, we have to let them in. But if them staying an extra couple of days adds to the budget so that we can afford to support students with SEN or pay a school nurse or a counsellor, then that's the reality.

Schools are in dire straits. But in competition with each other to get bums on seats for funding. So the truth is not spoken.

I’d also say that if teachers tried to raise it then we’d also get met with a host of how awful conditions are in other jobs and we should thank ourselves lucky we’ve got a room with a window/radiator etc... how we don’t have it the worst so therefore we should just shut up. That seems to be the general response I see when teachers raise anything at all....

@MrsHerculePoirot
Agreed.

@MrsHerculePoirot yep

I want to BEG people to vote labour every election if only for education. I know Blair introduced the idea of academies (which I think were a catastrophic idea) and the idea of oepning up universities to many more pupils, a good idea if not without some resulting issues . However during his years schools had a lot more funding and were much better places to work and learn. His election slogan was 'Education Education Education'.

It took about 10 years to recover from the previous 10 + years under Thatcher (when I went to school) when I think schools were in a very similar state towards the end as they are now after so little investment from the tory government.

This is interesting research
www.fenews.co.uk/press-releases/39680-newly-elected-mps-now-more-likely-to-have-been-educated-at-state-schools

^Of the major parties, comprehensive schools were attended by 41% of Conservative MPs and 70% of Labour MPs.
7% of the general population attend independent schools, in contrast to 41% of Conservative MPs and 14% of Labour MPs^

Basically so few of the tories went to state schools that they just don't understamd or care about state education, it is just not on their radar. They don't respect state school teachers and won't work with them, they just want to tell them what to do.

I thought there were legal minimum square metre measurements for ALL classrooms?

Two loos for 60 children. Plus disabled ones they are not supposed to use. By the end of the day the toilets are vile if no one has time to give them an extra clean. No money for extra cleaning.
Almost new school. Cramped classroom, freezing in winter- down to about 16/17 (heating doesn’t work properly) and boiling in summer (about 38 if it’s 30 outside).
But I do have windows that open at least so it’s fine. Fine.

New schools also were built with only one hall that has to be used for eating/assembly/PE - this causes a massive timetabling issue. It’s all about doing everything as cheaply as possible.
But when we complained about funding and there was a strike we were being greedy

Onlinelinda apparently not. Recommendations but no legal size. 55m squared for 30 children in a standard classroom.

My classroom is rammed and I'm not in a full class. I'm going back to 24, but only because of covid- people stuck abroad.

My windows are new, but I'm 4 flights up in a Victorian building, so even though they DO open, I'm not allowed to open them because we have children who would throw themselves out (by accident in a rage). They certainly clamber up on to the window ledges, which are 4ft high up.

Another thing I dont think parents really understand is the level of poor behaviour, and how so many children are broken and in urgent need of mental health work. There is no funding for that either.

Yep. It's that bad, OP.
And that's not even talking about things like the terrifying prevalence of asbestos in schools. My school, along with many others around here where colleagues report the same, undergoes some small asbestos sanitation at least once a year during the holidays, as new bits are uncovered, disturbed or broken. I taught for 7 weeks with exposed asbestos in my class last year, after a piece of carpet came away. There is always something, and instead of ripping the lot out during a holiday, or having is securely covered and sealed during a holiday, our Local Authority is content to work on an 'as and when required' basis. I was so worried about the kids further disturbing it but was told I mustn't 'warn' them, as parents would freak out. I would encourage every parent to enquire with their DC's school about the repair and / or removal of asbestos from children's learning areas; you'd be surprised.

Or horrified @WarmthAndDepth

Have you seen the threads about lazy teachers on MN and social media’s? Seen the snide comments about work shy, whinging teachers, our golden pensions (they aren’t) and our lovely long paid holidays and how none of us know what real work is?

That’s why we don’t complain more vociferously. The perception of teachers and their unions has been so eroded that there’s no point. No one trusts us, we’re just ‘left wing loonies’

Plus, as PP have pointed out, I think most of us would prefer to fight for adequate provision for children and young people with SEN, sufficient funds to buy paper/pens etc etc. Buildings come pretty low on the list because there are so many other battles to be fought.

Do you blame your GP for not informing you about “chronic heath service underfunding and NHS waiting list stuff“?