Going to restaurants with people not in your ‘bubble’

[Bellebelle]

Okay, so I’m in Scotland where rules around meeting people outside your household/extended household bubble are slightly different to the rest of the country but there’s not a massive difference in the number of people who can meet up indoors/outdoors etc. In Scotland three households can meet indoors with social distancing and I think it’s similar elsewhere.

Over the past couple of weeks there have been chats with friends and colleagues about starting to meet up face to face again after many months of only communicating on Zoom, WhatsApp etc (none of us live close enough to each other to have had any quick catch ups in a garden etc, proper arrangements need to be put in place to meet up).

So, I was very up for this and have been suggesting grabbing a takeaway coffee and going for a socially distanced walk or maybe sitting outside somewhere if the weather allows. However everyone wants to book tables in restaurants, wine bars etc and seem very relaxed about it. One person at work even suggested we book a table at a restaurant in town for 8 people. I’ve got another potential catch up this Thursday evening for 5 people which was planned for outdoors but now that the weather is looking dodgy someone has booked a table in a restaurant.

I don’t get it! You obviously can’t social distance when you’re all round a table in a restaurant but no one seems to bat an eyelid when it’s suggested. I thought we’d all just wrap up warm, stay outdoors and be grateful to see each other but I suddenly feel like I’m completely out of step with everyone in my social/work circle. I guess all these people going out to pubs and restaurants aren’t all in household groups and are taking the risk but am I right in thinking that this is breaking the rules?

For the Thursday meet up I think I’m going to have to pull out and just say that I don’t feel comfortable going to a restaurant ( haven’t sat inside anywhere with DH or DC’s yet so feels weird to go and do it with other people). Am I being overly cautious though? If the hospitality industry is open for business is that a green light to go out with friends but just be cautious elsewhere in life? Really just keen to check if my understanding is right, we’ve been very much in our household bubble for months, been pretty cautious but not felt overly restricted by things and reasonably happy for DC’s to go back to school etc but not in any rush to do anything that doesn’t seem essential but now wondering if I need to change my approach otherwise I’m going to become a hermit!

I would only go if I could socially distance at the table. That is, 1m apart at least. I’ve eaten outside many pubs and restaurants with friends and it’s been fine, we’ve stuck to the rules... but I guess the tables were quite big!

Yes @Oly4 that’s what I thought but have you actually been able to properly be 1m apart from everyone beside and opposite you at the table? As you say you need a pretty big table to do that and I’d think it’s quite unusual for most restaurants to be able to offer that?

Op I know what you mean.

You are not alone!

I think you've just got to decide what you'll do and clearly state it.

This is partly why we are drifting into a possible bad winter - people pushing a bit hard at the edge of the rules.

I wouldn't do this indoors.

You're right about the rules but no-ones doing it. Myself included, I've met friends for lunch/dinner at restaurants. I think the governments being a bit naive if they think people meeting indoors in people's houses are socially distancing.

If you don’t feel comfortable don’t do it.

If others have assessed the risk and do feel comfortable let them crack on.

Thanks @Augustseemsbetter I just doubt myself when everyone seems to have a completely different attitude to me.

@latticechaos you’re right, I think I’m just having issues deciding where I stand on things, in other parts of my life I’m naturally more of a risk taker but I feel very differently with Covid.

I think it’s the fact that people seem to suggest these meet ups with no acknowledgement of it being out with the rules, no “oh it’s a bit risky/against the rules but I’m up for it”. It makes me think that people have completely disengaged with the rules or assume that they’ll still be able to social distance in a restaurant. I did point this out to someone who was organising a meal for his team the other day and he said that he hadn’t really thought about it and they’ve since cancelled the booking. I’m not about to start policing people on it though, they’re adults and can make up their own minds but I think some people see restaurants being open as automatically equating to it being okay to go to them with friends as they would in the past whereas they probably wouldn’t have the same number of people in their homes.

Some restaurants are enforcing it. I was out for brunch today and a group of six were questioned if they were. From the same household......it was six blokes from six different houses and they were turned away.

I’d call the restaurant ahead and say you are all socially distancing and you assume the restaurant is also upholding the rules by providing big enough tables and spaces for people to do this?
We did this and the restaurants made sure our tables were big enough.

@byvirtue

If you don’t feel comfortable don’t do it.

If others have assessed the risk and do feel comfortable let them crack on.

Do you feel differently about four households, 17 people, meeting up indoors for Eid? (happened amongst my extended family and others I know). At what point would you stop telling people who break the rules to ‘crack on’? Because surely there has to come a limit.

OP you have my sympathies. I’m in the same position and just make my boundaries very clear early on. Have no problem making people feel awkward by doing so.

I'd feel the same as you.

I've had a couple of friends round separately for drinks or dinner in the garden, and met one for a picnic.

Tonight I'm taking DD and her boyfriend for dinner at a local pub, but I've pre-booked an outside table and ordering/payment is by app.

That's as far as I'm willing to go right now.

Wait people are still following the rules 🤣 I don’t know anyone who still is. Stop being so controlled everyone and enjoy life

I agree with you OP. There's no social distancing when you are all seated at a table. Particularly one that is inside.

For me, I'm not comfortable with that so I won't be joining in with it for now. I've been out with my children and eaten at a very spacious outside table at a garden centre which was nice. Especially the 50% off the bill. An inside table with 5 other people not from my household would not be enjoyable for me though. How could you be sure one of them wasn't asymptomatic.

I think it's fascinating from a psychology point of view how inconsistent we all are. Myself included. It's a lot about peer influence I think. But also what seems reasonable and justifiable on a micro level 'our case is a special case' or 'its common sense that we are ok to do xyz' becomes morally outrageous when it's 'others' doing it. I don't think you are being unreasonable OP, I'm not v cautious but I am not ready to go to restaurants yet with my family.

Wait people are still following the rules 🤣 I don’t know anyone who still is. Stop being so controlled everyone and enjoy life

This is exactly why I am choosing to continue to socially distance from people I don't live with. Other people's risk levels instantly become your risk levels when you mix with them. You're not really going to know where they've been and who with when you meet with them.

If they're comfortable with no social distancing and being inside pubs then , when it comes down to it, they are at greater risk of getting Coronavirus. It seems most of the confimed cases from pub goers are people who have been to multiple pubs with multiple people. The increased risk clearly hasn't paid off for them. That really isn't for me right now.

I have been wondering today if I am overreacting to be worried that DP went out last night and sat outdoors at a pub with friends. Six of them at a picnic table. He says it’s OK as six is the rule and they were outdoors but I feel they should still have tried to social distance a bit and have now opened me and the kids up to a number of other households He did take my point but didn’t think it was necessary. It’s causing me some anxiety but I know people will say it’s up to the individual.

@Lindy2

I agree with you OP. There's no social distancing when you are all seated at a table. Particularly one that is inside.

For me, I'm not comfortable with that so I won't be joining in with it for now. I've been out with my children and eaten at a very spacious outside table at a garden centre which was nice. Especially the 50% off the bill. An inside table with 5 other people not from my household would not be enjoyable for me though. How could you be sure one of them wasn't asymptomatic.

You can't be sure, but if the odds are one in 2,000 (please correct me if this figure is incorrect) of somebody having CV, then me catching it, AND happening to be in a tiny minority that get very sick, and not being in a risky group, then I will take my chances.

but if the odds are one in 2,000 (please correct me if this figure is incorrect) of somebody having CV, then me catching it, AND happening to be in a tiny minority that get very sick, and not being in a risky group, then I will take my chances.

Exactly this, add to the fact I personally haven’t left home in a week and my chances of being an asymptomatic carrier are tiny. So id be happy to go.

Everyone’s risk assessment is different!

Yes the chances are possibly higher though you would be asymptomatic and spread covid for 12d.
Maybe not high chances but think of all the people you see at less than 1m in 12d. Then think of the people they then see.

@middleager

We don't have to use blunt tools such as 1 in 2000 anymore. The data is there at a granular, local level in the government's coronavirus dashboard - check the map- www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public

Large swathes of the country seem to have no/few cases, but if you check the dashboard and see a flurry in your local area, it might be best to reconsider.

It's still not a foolproof strategy of course, because there is still a fluid of movement of people. All it takes is someone in a low risk area to visit a family member in Manchester, say, come back and hang out with friends
at home, and they could have passed something on. There are many people coming in from abroad also who aren't bothering to quarantine.

Still, people do need to be making informed decisions and the map is helpful.

I think the psychology of going out and saying you can't be bothered with distancing easy to understand.

I don't get the sense in wanting everyone else to do it! Because it's best to be one of the few doing their own thing whilst letting others restrict themselves and keep transmission low. So you can carry on doing your thing!

@byvirtue

but if the odds are one in 2,000 (please correct me if this figure is incorrect) of somebody having CV, then me catching it, AND happening to be in a tiny minority that get very sick, and not being in a risky group, then I will take my chances.

Exactly this, add to the fact I personally haven’t left home in a week and my chances of being an asymptomatic carrier are tiny. So id be happy to go.

Everyone’s risk assessment is different!

In one sense, you're right.

But we'll never get anywhere unless people take the collective issue of covid seriously.

It is this approach that will slowly strangle the economy as we will see cases rising again.

I'm not going to berate an individual, but where are we actually trying to get to with covid?

I would also imagine the odds of someone having covid in a pub are higher than 1 in 2000 as they are the people most likely to put themselves in situations where they catch it. But that is my guess. So try not to be too complacent.

@Augustseemsbetter

I think the psychology of going out and saying you can't be bothered with distancing easy to understand.

I don't get the sense in wanting everyone else to do it! Because it's best to be one of the few doing their own thing whilst letting others restrict themselves and keep transmission low. So you can carry on doing your thing!

Yy to this! The risky people should be glad I'm NOT in the pub!

[quote Redolent]@middleager

We don't have to use blunt tools such as 1 in 2000 anymore. The data is there at a granular, local level in the government's coronavirus dashboard - check the map- www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public

Large swathes of the country seem to have no/few cases, but if you check the dashboard and see a flurry in your local area, it might be best to reconsider.

It's still not a foolproof strategy of course, because there is still a fluid of movement of people. All it takes is someone in a low risk area to visit a family member in Manchester, say, come back and hang out with friends
at home, and they could have passed something on. There are many people coming in from abroad also who aren't bothering to quarantine.

Still, people do need to be making informed decisions and the map is helpful.[/quote]
Thanks. 8 cases per 100,000, 24 in the past week. A little higher than average, but seeing the numbers is helpful.

I know exactly what you mean, OP.

My child is moving school in September and someone suggested drinks with all the new class mums before the term starts, as well a meet-up for the kids. I just cannot see how that can be done in a socially-distanced way.