Going to restaurants with people not in your ‘bubble’

[Bellebelle]

Okay, so I’m in Scotland where rules around meeting people outside your household/extended household bubble are slightly different to the rest of the country but there’s not a massive difference in the number of people who can meet up indoors/outdoors etc. In Scotland three households can meet indoors with social distancing and I think it’s similar elsewhere.

Over the past couple of weeks there have been chats with friends and colleagues about starting to meet up face to face again after many months of only communicating on Zoom, WhatsApp etc (none of us live close enough to each other to have had any quick catch ups in a garden etc, proper arrangements need to be put in place to meet up).

So, I was very up for this and have been suggesting grabbing a takeaway coffee and going for a socially distanced walk or maybe sitting outside somewhere if the weather allows. However everyone wants to book tables in restaurants, wine bars etc and seem very relaxed about it. One person at work even suggested we book a table at a restaurant in town for 8 people. I’ve got another potential catch up this Thursday evening for 5 people which was planned for outdoors but now that the weather is looking dodgy someone has booked a table in a restaurant.

I don’t get it! You obviously can’t social distance when you’re all round a table in a restaurant but no one seems to bat an eyelid when it’s suggested. I thought we’d all just wrap up warm, stay outdoors and be grateful to see each other but I suddenly feel like I’m completely out of step with everyone in my social/work circle. I guess all these people going out to pubs and restaurants aren’t all in household groups and are taking the risk but am I right in thinking that this is breaking the rules?

For the Thursday meet up I think I’m going to have to pull out and just say that I don’t feel comfortable going to a restaurant ( haven’t sat inside anywhere with DH or DC’s yet so feels weird to go and do it with other people). Am I being overly cautious though? If the hospitality industry is open for business is that a green light to go out with friends but just be cautious elsewhere in life? Really just keen to check if my understanding is right, we’ve been very much in our household bubble for months, been pretty cautious but not felt overly restricted by things and reasonably happy for DC’s to go back to school etc but not in any rush to do anything that doesn’t seem essential but now wondering if I need to change my approach otherwise I’m going to become a hermit!

User149
I know the exponential function
but I also know that the rate in the Southern counties has not budged for weeks
despite hundreds of thousands of people gathering in huge numbers on beaches
implying it is NOT spreading

I do think the public have to take responsibility too.

Absolutely agree with this but so many people seem unwilling to do this. I think it’s interesting that the guidance says that you should consider where you’re sitting at the table in a restaurant if you’re with another household. But where is the guidance on what’s best? Sitting across from someone could be riskier than sitting beside them, it’s all about the direction of conversations when it comes to an infected person spreading a virus to someone else.

@ListeningQuietly it may be because those gatherings are happening outdoors where the risk seems to be significantly lower and despite the photos showing crowded beaches groups of people are often probably at least 1m apart and it’s unlikely that groups next to one another actually interact with one another's - let’s face it, when you go to the beach you done everything you can to stay away from other people in the best of times!

BelleBelle
What about the raves
and the crowded pubs
and the street parties

FFS
Our local MASSIVE hospital currently has no COVID cases at it
testing is widening and coming back negative after negative

COVID is now very very localised
and my dinner out in a restaurant was lovely last night

My local community is pretty small. We can't go for a walk without bumping into someone we know. If we go to our local we will know others in there.

So the chances are if we go to a local restaurant we will know others in there. I see no issue with multiple local households who know each other booking at the same time, provided they stick to their own tables and dont move around. In some ways if thats people you are socialising with in small groups according to the rules, thats safer for you all because you arent then mixing with other people you wouldnt otherwise come into contact with. It actually reduces the number of combined contacts that all the people eating in the restaurant have.

The issue is more about people mixing with large numbers of people from a wide area.

For example 5 families in a small community all only socialising with each other (mainly outside and in line with the rules) is preferable to 5 families who dont know each other mixing with multiple social groups in multiple locations going to the same restaurant. The former meet with 5 households and those households mix with only the households in the group. The latter could meet with 5 households on monday, another 5 households on Wednesday, another 5 on friday. Thats a lot more contacts in a chain that soon multiply up.

It depends on your lifestyle to a large degree and the size of your community. And the point is its not just about the size of the group you are meeting, its also about the number of different households you meet with and they meet with in a small time frame.

Highly connected people who are socialising with lots of people who dont know each other and arent socially distancing are particularly problematic compared with more closed and insular 'cliques'.

The point for me is to think about your chains of contact and how many households youve seen in the last week and youd have to warn if you got covid-19 even if they dont meet the strict definition for track and trace. If its a huge list you are overdoing it.

@ListeningQuietly look at what’s happened in Aberdeen though, one night out has resulted in over 200 cases that are currently known of and almost 1000 contacts have been traced. I’m know that not every gathering results in an outbreak and as it’s largely younger people involved in the Aberdeen case it doesn’t seem to have translated to massively increased hospital admissions, most of them will likely have it mildly or no symptoms at all.

With regard to hospitals the model most are following is that there will be a slight increase towards the end of this month and that the numbers will rise significantly towards the end of October as a result of the weather not being so good and the continued relaxing of lockdown.

I’m all for people making their own minds up about the risks and good for you enjoying your restaurant outings but you can’t say that it’s somehow stopped spreading or gone away.

Agreed @RedToothBrush I was trying to explain this “Covid maths” to my eldest DD last night. She goes back to school tomorrow and as it’s highly unlikely that she’ll be able to social distance from her friends at school during the day there doesn’t seem to be much point in asking her to do so outside of school anymore. However she has friends outside of school that we’ve said she’ll still need to social distance with. She thought this terribly unfair to start with but I think we got through to her 🤔

I went to visit my parents last week, we stayed there but kept apart (other end of lounge, own bathroom, either end of long dining table)
Mum and I went for coffee and did sit opposite ends of table for 4. I don't think that was over 1 meter, so no idea how more than 2 people would manage to eat out safely.
(I did like sitting in back of her car being driven like lady Penelope)
So will stick to just meals out with my other half though god knows we have run out of stuff to say! So easier to eat takeaway and watch Netflix.

We are in England and we are still following government guidelines as DH is in extremely vulnerable group. I know very few people who are following the guidelines. I suspect most people don’t even know what the guidelines are, most peoples to think it’s fine to be just 1 m apart from people.

Just to clarify unless you are facing the same direction or are wearing a mask then the guidelines says you should be 2 meters apart.

I am kind of in the same situation (though it is DH)

He occasionally goes out with some of his ex colleagues for a meal, one of them is trying to arrange another for next month, about 8/9 of them.

This is obviously against guidance (England) but I don't think DH wants to be the one to say.

I am fairly relaxed within the rules - as in I follow them but do pretty much everything I'm allowed to. (If I want to) However this is making me very uncomfortable, not so much them having the meal as such, but just if the whole track and trace happens and the repercussions of that, and that the risks however small will be increased meeting so many different people.

Are you uncomfortable about it because its breaking the rules or uncomfortable about it because you don't want to be in close proximity to a number of different households? If there wasn't a rule about it would you still be considering not going?

@Uhoh2020 I find it quite difficult to separate the two.

I’m working on the basis that the science informs the rules and therefore the rules should be followed to minimise the risk of transmission and suppress the virus.

If the government where to announce tomorrow that you no longer had to social distance I’d expect that to come with an explanation that numbers were now so low or the virus eliminated in my area that the risk of transmission was unlikely.

I think you need to forget about if its breaking a rule or not and base your decision on how comfortable you will be in the surroundings you are going to. If you are going to feel anxious whilst you are there then I wouldn't bother its not going to be enjoyable for you. I'm sure there will be other catch ups further down the line you'll feel better about. Don't feel pressured either way to go or not go.

Thanks @Uhoh2020 I’ve already pulled out of the meet up tomorrow night which has turned into a booking for 6 people in a wine bar. Got a coffee catch up booked with a friend I haven’t seen yet this year on Friday morning and she’s all for sitting outside/going for a walk and staying apart so seems like a good place to start.

Also got a table booked for breakfast at one of our favourite restaurants on the August bank holiday for me and DH (our kids don’t get the bank holiday so it’s an annual occasion to celebrate getting a free day to ourselves!) which I’m looking forward to. I’m not against going to restaurants but happy to limit my dining partners to immediate family for now!

There's never been so much social pressure on us as a society like there is now. Wearing masks, social distancing, mixing households, wary of touching things someone else has touched. We all have these things in the back of our minds its undoubtedly takes some of the enjoyment out of doing the things we used to do. I think we just need to do what we are comfortable with at the moment without any added pressure to do something we don't enjoy just to please others or be sociable and invest in the economy

Very well put @Uhoh2020

I agree, good post Uhoh2020

Well DH has decided not to go and just said that he wasn't comfortable doing so in the current circumstances. He said that he wouldn't really enjoy it as he would just worry all the time.

I wouldn’t eat a meal in a restaurant with anyone other than my household. I have had drinks/coffee with one friend at a time at 2m distance and that’s about my limit.