Are we delaying the inevitable?

[Slytherin]

I am wondering if we are delaying the inevitable here with continued lockdowns/social distancing etc.
These events surely happen in the world and over history to ensure population reduction and control.
Surely the virus will continue to circulate whatever happens, until it has burnt itself out/finished its natural run?
Unless a vaccine/decent treatment is found sooner.

22% of Covid deaths (source the Guardian) are under 65, so that about 10,000 deaths

considering the under 65s make up about 85% of the UK population that doesn't really help your argument. 15% of the population accounting for 68% of covid deaths highlights where the real issue is.

The over 90s (less than 1% of the UK population) account for around 20% of all covid deaths - and even for them, if they get covid they are more likely to survive than die.

Hmmm 22% are under 65...Is there not a review at the moment into figures being exasperated because if you've had Covid and recovered and then say die of something unrelated your death will state covid as the cause if death. Also I said under 60 not under 65 and it was a doctor on Question Time who stated that figure.

Fuck sake, have you seen New Zealand? Done a fanstasic job.
Also saying only people with underlying health conditions die, you know most people over 60 will be on blood pressure tablets or cholesterol or diabetic? So that includes All. of. Them.

Your view of eradicating benefit scrounging disabled people is wrong. You know the majority of shielding people aren’t the group of people you are thinking about, but people with jobs who don’t consider themselves disabled and work etc. It’s the disabled who haven’t made it into the shielding group who have been screwed over.

But crack on seeing as you have no family members over 50 to worry about.

I think the government is just a bit like king Canute and the tide, this virus is going to come again just like the tide.

Completely agree with you OP. The world is trying to take on nature but she is far, far stronger.

No there is no inevitable, and inevitable would mean much more than illness and death too - which would be bad enough. Inevitable means we have failed and many businesses and economies will plummet if we did nothing. We would not be able to go around business as normal!

The smart thing is to buy time. Already because of lockdown - if you now end up with severe case there are much more effective treatments.

@MynephewR

Completely agree with you OP. The world is trying to take on nature but she is far, far stronger.

Several scientists including the much loved on here Chris whitty have said they are confident in the power of humankind and science to defeat the virus. Nature also gave us science and these amazing people with with incredible brains and talent to help us overcome challenges. If none of the previous pandemics have finished us off, neither will this one.

@Jaxhog

These events surely happen in the world and over history to ensure population reduction and control.

You're a ray of sunshine, aren't you! You make it sound like a planned and necessary act. Would you like to set up euthanasia booths too?

Exactly my thoughts! What a mercenary way to think.

I sort of agree with OP but it’s not just the deaths- it is causing long term health problems too in some people - think the numbers are small though.

There is a possibility we may never have a working vaccine - there isn’t one for aids. But doctors know better how to treat covid now.

I will be very happy to carry on homeworking and Taking measures to avoid getting it for the foreseeable. My employer is doing quite well Profit wise despite everyone homeworking. But it’s a financial company suited to homeworking. Feel sorry for those that don’t have the option.

I am so angry at this idea that the only thing that matters is preventing death from covid. How dare you minimise the deaths of those who have died due to lockdown or the focus being on covid instead of fast diagnosis and treatment.

No it brings no comfort that it wasn't covid, none whatsoever. That life was no less worthy because it was ended by cancer. So don't talk about saving lives when the only deaths you care about are covid ones. You don't care about anyone but yourselves.

Re population control - did you not learn in geography about J curves and S curves? Humans are on a J curve which is not the sort of curve you want to be on! Nothing mercenary about it it’s just nature!

You can take Prep to stop you transmitting HIV, and there are loads of pills that stop HIV turning to AIDS.

I am wondering if we are delaying the inevitable here with continued lockdowns/social distancing etc

No, since a vaccine is well into development, letting everyone catch it and hundreds of thousands die is not inevitable.

These events surely happen in the world and over history to ensure population reduction and control

No. They occur randomly. They do not have any design to control populations.

Surely the virus will continue to circulate whatever happens, until it has burnt itself out/finished its natural run?

Well, until we have a vaccine, yes. So why not try to stop people dying while we wait for the vaccine? Why not?

I have terminal cancer and most of my drugs have been stopped due to COVID.

I am also a Health care professional. Yesterday I tried to refer someone for physiotherapy to help them maintain and regain function. Therapy staff are only doing hospital discharges. No other community work is happening in our area.

I will be a casualty of COVID 19 and lots of people will be living much worse lives because of it. It is not a simple as lockdown saves lives.

After the last few months of watching people react to restrictions designed to save them I have changed my position.

We should stop trying to explain to stupid people why they can't do what they like. Let them go to pubs and parties. Don't make them wear masks or even wash their hands. When they turn up at a hospital turn them away with a leaflet explaining that they probably would have died of something else eventually anyway.

Think of it a Evolution in Action.

Humans are on a J curve which is not the sort of curve you want to be on! Nothing mercenary about it it’s just nature!

Are we? Global population growth peaked in the 1960s. It's been falling ever since. Latest studies suggest it will no longer be growing by the end of this century.

I take then OP that rather than "delay the inevitable" you would rather see all the at risk people in your family and social circles fight for their lives on ICU? And that would include relatively low risk people who for whatever reason become exposed to a viral dose high enough to incapacity them. Oh and don't forget, those with the lowest chance of survival have their life support withdrawn because their ventilator is needed for a younger patient who has better odds. Because, rather than "delay the inevitable" we instead opted to allowed the virus to run rampant through our population. Really??

Just because our hospitals didn't mirror what we witnessed happening in Italy, people are actually calling this an over reaction?? Rather than recognise that the lockdown (albeit far from perfectly executed) actually did some good!

It’s just a shit sandwich just now. Of course the economy, other illnesses still matter and risk causing more death than Covid but it’s not like we can actually make a choice given how quickly Covid spreads. Look at that case in Aberdeen. Started with one guy in a pub and now 79 confirmed cases and rising. It’s not like we can ignore Covid and society continue as normal even if we shield the vulnerable. It’s a total shit sandwich. Poverty and other illnesses will kill more people than Covid I’m sure but it’s too virulent just to let it burn through society.

Ask me again in a years time when the ONS come out with the deaths from cancer, heart, suicides etc are visible as a statistic over a twelve month period and compared with other years.

@beetrees but how will new zealand open up to the rest of the world whilst its still rife everywhere else , also they have a small population so easier to control ,not saying we have done well by any means but def easier to control in smaller countries , those countries with really large populations are having thousands of cases to deal with now its scary

A point not everyone will realise. Just for consideration. The more everyone else gets back to normal, the more the vulnerable and elderly and their close families can not. The looser our lockdown is, the tougher theirs has to be because doing something even half normal that was OK a month ago will carry too much risk.

You may think that's OK. I get it. But ask yourself how you would feel if you had any of the wide ranging conditions (many of which have normal lifespans and healthy lives). Or how you'd feel if your parent or child did and you were forced to literally live in a prison so everyone else could be normal.

Not saying which way is right. Just ethical food for thought.

We judge our society by how we treat the most vulnerable.

I think that might be an argument with flu. As you would get herd immunity and move on. With this long term immunity is uncertain so likely if not vaccine you will all get it multiple times and any of you say 30 would be so damaged by having it say 10 times you would be dead by 50. You all get old obviously do none of you want to live that long or assume against all odd you wont have any health issues.
Both dmum and mil are on bp tablets from 40 or so. And now fil is too.
There is no guarantee that this doesnt remain in your body and reactivate like cp does as shingles. Who wants to keep going through covid? The stats on young deaths are rather swayed as at peak they would be prioritised for treatment. But worldwide a couple have had lung transplants so theyve obviously not faired too well but not in the died category.
Where are the virus damaged stats.

Also where do people think the government are getting the money from to pay for this economic crisis?
They have borrowed billions, that will have to paid back by us all! There will be years of austerity and as a knock on effect more deaths from mental health, poverty etc. Hey ho though, those people/children don't matter do they.

It's almost as if our current economic model is broken and needs replacing isn't it?