Can someone explain?

[Alex50]

How does test and trace work? So say your child tests positive from school or someone in the bubble of 260, does that mean every family from that bubble have to self isolate for 14 days?

If someone at your work tests positive does the office have to close for 14 days?

I can’t see how this is going to work when the children go back to school?

If someone tests positive, then those who have been in close contact will be asked to self isolate for 14 days.

Our school will be running half classes of 16, so I imagine all 16 children will have to switch back to Teams & home schooling for two weeks if that happens. The only way I can see it working is is everyone stays as locked down as possible, wfh if possible, limits socialising to one other household etc. to minimise the risk and try to avoid children catching it in the first place.

I have to go back to work Monday, I can’t work from home. My husband is already back at work meeting different people every day, the implications of having a positive test are huge. Say you are the responsible one to have the test, the business has to close, you would seem to be at fault. I can see people not having the test because of this.

Yes, it's going to be a massive PITA having to potentially isolate a 'bubble' repeatedly. For teachers, children and parents.

I've got friends who are not really doing much this summer to avoid having track and trace contact them to isolate. Better to do walkable things, outside, than be totally stuck at home because you went for lunch at a cafe, or out to the pub for a pint. I'd be really sorry to have to make other people isolate too. Be interesting to see how that pans out for the colder weather ahead. I'm making people quilts for Christmas as a wrap up warm in gardens type thing.

I think the crux of the matter is that we want people to do the right thing but when they do the right thing they get 'punished' by all the downsides of having to quarantine
if we want people to do the right thing we need to reward them for doing the right thing... but we can't.
We live in a modern liberal democratic society and as such we're just not used to sacrificing our personal well-being and freedom for the collective good
It's all just too counterintuitive for us to get our heads around 🤦‍♀️

When dealing with an illness that has strong, obvious, identifiable symptoms, like SARS or Ebola, test and trace is used when there is a small number of infections in a fairly localised area. Cases are identified quickly, due to symptoms, contacts are identified by skilled tracers who track as many potential infections as possible and quarantine is enforced, ensuring that those people do stay isolated and identifying any further infections in that group and any further contacts.

In an illness like covid, that causes anything from no symptoms at all, to a very wide range of very inconsistent symptoms, what happens is, it spreads throughout the world within months without anyone really noticing and then track and trace is used a play-pretend to convince people that it's actually possible to find the all of the contacts of thousands of infected people, many of whom may have been engaging with a wide range of people for a week or more without symptoms they didn't notice/recognised or without any symptoms. At the very best it identifies a very very small percentage of actual infections, while also massively inconveniencing people for the sake of appearing to do something.

Well, until there is guaranteed pay for staying at home to isolate, lots of people won't be able to do it. So won't. If children are off school 'just in case' then grandparents and other families are going to be roped in for childcare, which entirely defeats the object, but there isn't much alternative.

Track and trace is used as a play pretend
and that's why Johnson describes it as 'world beating' he's just running with the strategy, it's all theatre, all make believe, just a mock up to keep us quiet and buy them time.... aka gaslighting all of us ☹️

Given that people have been scared shitless, they'd never accept the truth at this stage, which is covid is one of many illnesses we'll all have to live with and all the 'measures' in the meantime are a matter of buying time until people come to that conclusion themselves. So far only the Swedish politicians have been brave enough to admit that there's no definitive way to protect people from a highly contagious virus with hard-to-distinguish symptoms. It's possible slow it, with sensible measures like handwashing and control of large groups, but all measures like lockdown do is delay the inevitable while destroying the economy, so people get covid at a later stage, when they have no jobs and there is no money for healthcare.

And those of us who have been saying exactly that from day one were told we were :

a. callous
b. uncaring
c. wanting to kill grannies
d. wanting to exterminate the vulnerable

because we also know the stats which is that even in the most vulnerable groups, the death rate is only 15% which whilst high is not going to kill all grannies and all vulnerable (some of the grannies and vulnerable never even know they had it)

@ACautionaryTale

And those of us who have been saying exactly that from day one were told we were :

a. callous
b. uncaring
c. wanting to kill grannies
d. wanting to exterminate the vulnerable

because we also know the stats which is that even in the most vulnerable groups, the death rate is only 15% which whilst high is not going to kill all grannies and all vulnerable (some of the grannies and vulnerable never even know they had it)

This focus on deaths once again... The hospitalization rate is 10% for people in their 50s. Why don’t you try to work that around an already groaning NHS?

Our secondary school bubble is over 500...... just can't get my head around it!

@Redolent

because on the same level as you can't stop deaths if they are going to happen, we can't stop people catching it

we all will eventually - all we are doing is dragging out the process and killing the economy at the same time

[quote ACautionaryTale]@Redolent

because on the same level as you can't stop deaths if they are going to happen, we can't stop people catching it

we all will eventually - all we are doing is dragging out the process and killing the economy at the same time[/quote]
Simply dragging out the process, if that’s your only concession, is incredibly important. Too many people get it at once and the medical system collapses - people start getting turned away from hospitals, as they were in Texas not long ago. That’s a scenario no civilised society is willing to stomach. Besides, we have a finite amount of doctors and nurses whose morale is important, and no, we cannot virtually suspend all NHS services as we did in March onwards. The waiting list in the UK is already absurd and people are dying of non-covid reasons.

Of course there’s the other point which is that ‘we all will it’. Who‘s ‘we’? China with its population of 1.4 billion saw... 34 cases yesterday.

Dragging out the process is important, yes. Destroying the economy and creating more problems and deaths is not the way to do that.

Yes, China had 34 cases yesterday. How many will they have had by 2025?

Doesn’t dragging it give more time to find vaccine/medication to reduce death or long term impact

It does. But if by dragging it out you kill people via other methods then it's just totally pointless. A death is a death, and it isn't just covid deaths that are tragic.

I'm pretty sure that in the school guidance it has to be more than one positive within a bubble before closing the bubble down.

I think it’s 2 @Pinkflipflop85 and then PHE will get involved and advise school what to do

So what happens for companies of 20 people in a business if one person tests positive does it have to close?

It will depend.

If there is good social distancing and risk mitigation within the company, then only close contacts would need to be isolated.

However if all 20 work close together in a singe poorly-ventilated room facing each other across small desks, with no barriers between them, and e.g. share the same kitchen and toilets, all squashing in with one another and there being no adequate cleaning, then everyone might need to isolate.

I assume if it is COVID secure no, because no-one should be within 2m of anyone for more than 15 minutes. But like schools if you then get a second positive that possibility may need to be looked into
www.gov.uk/guidance/nhs-test-and-trace-workplace-guidance

Thank you that it explains it better, it isn’t as bad as I thought it would be.

So another scenario for you clever people, daughter’s bubble has a confirmed case, our family all get a negative test, my husband and I can return to work?

Yes, I think it is only your daughter who has to self isolate unless she starts to show symptoms

"only the Swedish politicians have been brave enough"

When being brave means having 5-12 x the deaths / million of your Scandi / Nordic neighbours^

• and even of much more densely populated Germany .....

and for about the same projected GDP drop loss in 2020

.... I'm glad BJ chose not to be "brave"