Is anyone not sending their secondary school child back initially?

[lastkisstoo]

I've decided to keep my 15 year old home, probably until the October hols to see what happens.

We are in Scotland. What just happened in the pubs in Aberdeen is exactly what I see happening in schools. Mostly young adults, enclosed space, no social distancing.

My child has asthma, and while not on the list for sheltering I still feel is vulnerable enough that I don't want to see him being used as a guinea pig while the government assess just how big the uptick in cases will be on schools re-opening.

Oh right and here was me thinking we have endured thousands of years of patriarchal oppression and social structures which inhibit women’s progressing, the fact that the burden of childcare under lockdown has fallen largely to them being one @Oaktree55 but silly me and silly women, they actually just need a bit more confidence 🙄

Nostaples pmsl u cheered me up treat yourself to a large ha

@nostaples

You're making a quite a few assumptions based presumably on your own prejudices, not on the things said by people on here.

I think this is why these threads get nowhere and get heated.

What have antivaxxers to do with anything??

@nostaples

It’s not ‘slavish acceptance of government attitudes’ it’s evidence-based science!

A century ago some of you would be arguing against the education of girls in case ovaries dropped out!

Erm no. and no.

So is this disregard of what measures would be safe in schools and would protect pupils, teachers and families based on a misguided idea of what would be most convenient for teachers?

Because being in the middle of a surge of infections in schools would be unpleasant (and dangerous) for teachers in all sorts of ways.

Scientific remodelling of return to school from The Lancet Child & Adolescent Health (pretty good medical journal)

www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(20)30250-9/fulltext

This is what the resurgence is likely to look like with 68% tracing and 18% testing (top left). From the best evidence we have.

According to the BBC only about 50% of contacts are being traced in school.

(We are quite good at science in my family, thanks).

sorry that should say , only about 50% of contacts are being traced in England

Im confused as to how your allowed to not send your child into school?

I’m shocked at the parents who actually believe that children do better in a school environment and that not being in school will somehow damage their future prospects.

All I can assume is that they’re used to being spoon fed ‘education‘ by the system and are ill equipped to cope at home.

Learning at home with WiFi etc. in a good supportive environment is a lot easier than years ago when you had to travel to the town library and sit researching and writing up your essays because the school library was crap.

If you’re not in school you can’t get involved in group projects, but that’s actually a benefit as far as I’m concerned. Group projects can be hugely stressful at that age.

Learning how to study and manage your time effectively at a young age is a great skill to master and will put you at a clear advantage both in University and in the workplace.

Are you keeping him home to keep him safe? Or others?

If him. He had more chance of dying of flu than covid. He has an incredibly low risk of being seriously affected by it

If others is that fair on him? Adults can go to the pub etc etc. But your son misses the first half term of his school year.

@RandyLionandDirtyDog call me weird, but yes I do believe my not very motivated DS14 will be better educated in a class of peers with a knowledgeable teacher where he can bounce off ideas and ask questions and hopefully be inspired to learn, than at home in front of a computer where he can also access computer games and other diversions.

He will also learn social skills and how to mix with peers and other adults. Again not something he's going to get at home as an only DC.

Some DCs do learn better at home, a few people at work have said their DCs are adapting fine to learning at home and feel calmer, but this is the distinct minority, my work colleague who has two autistic teen DC is on the verge of a breakdown as they refuse to engage with online learning as their structures and routines have been stripped away from them.

It's clear that not all DCs are the same and nor are all parents. I would prefer to keep working rather than not earn any money and become a third rate educator for my DS. I don't particularly want to spend my spare time researching BBC bitesize when I already pay fees for him to be educated- and I don't think any school in Scotland has experienced the loss of lives and illness described upthread - certainly if there had been any lives lost at DSs school we would have been notified so we could pay our condolences and of course if multiple teachers were off ill, then that's an emergency situation where I would not expect normal teaching.

No for me my DS needs to get back to school. As I've said upthread if they're sent home again because of rising numbers, this time I'll be quick to engage tutors so I can outsource to someone more qualified than myself.

Scientific remodelling of return to school from The Lancet Child & Adolescent Health (pretty good medical journal)

Several expert reactions to the modelling study here;

“The study does not attempt to quantify all uncertainties through, for example, a full statistical fit of the model to data, and as such the exact numbers reported should be viewed as plausible but potentially pessimistic scenarios rather than precise predictions." ...

“My biggest concern is that the paper’s title does not completely reflect the model assumptions – the large increase in R that occurs in September is not simply due to schools reopening but also “increases in workplace and community transmission probabilities”.The authors “assumed that if schools were to reopen full time….the transmission probability in community settings would be 90% of its pre-lockdown value”.Therefore the paper actually models the impact of the UK removing almost all of its lock-down measures including the re opening of schools.Under such considerations it is unsurprising that a large second wave is predicted."

“The reopening of schools should clearly be a key priority for the UK, many children will have gone over 5 months without setting foot in a classroom.The key questions are how much impact will school reopening have on the epidemic and what can be done to mitigate this.The partial reopening that occurred in June has not seen a steep rise in cases nor many local outbreaks associated with schools. In fact, most school outbreaks are centred around teaching staff rather than students, reflecting the fact that younger children are generally less susceptible and may transmit less when asymptomatic.(The staff room may be far more dangerous than the classroom.)The precise dynamics within secondary schools is less clear, given relatively little data, but in countries that have reopened schools this alone has not been seen as a major amplifier of infection."

www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-two-papers-looking-at-schools-test-and-trace-and-the-likelihood-of-a-second-wave/

@nostaples

I have been a teacher for 20 years. I know exact what it’s like to teach the kids of parents who think their children are too precious for the rules that apply to everyone else. Not a single thought for the poor teachers, who may have legitimate concerns about going back to school, And who will pull pull out all the stops to minimise the disadvantage caused in some cases by children’s own parents

I for one don't think my children are too precious to follow the rules, I think they are too precious to have their's and their loved ones lives put at risk! I also think it's unfair on teachers and their families like yourself 😏 If you all want to trust the government who as we all know deep down just want herd immunity then that's up to you I guess but I certainly don't and won't be putting our lives in their hands!

Mosquitofest all of the teachers at my children's school drive their own cars. They don't travel by bus.

@user1490954378

Mosquitofest all of the teachers at my children's school drive their own cars. They don't travel by bus.

Where do you live? That is extremely unusual. There is almost no parking for teachers at schools around here. Everyone comes by bus, walks or cycles

At least they don't travel to and from school by bus. I would not use a bus myself at the moment, and I'm not happy about my children having to use one twice daily. I have a family member who was a fit and healthy young person before he became I'll and lost his life to Covid19 two months ago. He used public transport twice daily. There is no proof that that is where he became infected, but I'm still wanting to keep my children off a bus for the time being. Call me over careful, but that's just how I feel.

It is a new school with a huge car park.

@user1490954378

At least they don't travel to and from school by bus. I would not use a bus myself at the moment, and I'm not happy about my children having to use one twice daily. I have a family member who was a fit and healthy young person before he became I'll and lost his life to Covid19 two months ago. He used public transport twice daily. There is no proof that that is where he became infected, but I'm still wanting to keep my children off a bus for the time being. Call me over careful, but that's just how I feel.

sorry for your loss

@user1490954378

It is a new school with a huge car park.

maybe, but in general, you can't assume teachers are not using public transport. Tens of thousands are

The teachers at my children's school all drive with the exception of maybe one or two who cycle in. I work in a school myself as a TA doing supply all over the county, and have never known a teacher who catches a bus to and from school every day. That's just from my own experience.
My children would have no choice, but to get the bus, due to the distance and location of the school. This has not been addressed by the school or the council.

OP the issue of the bus is my main concern tbh. I'm confident that the school will organise the school day as safely as possible for all, and I believe that we do need to try and get kids back in school, but how they will get to and from school is an issue for us, as I'm sure it must be for many others.

@user1490954378

The teachers at my children's school all drive with the exception of maybe one or two who cycle in. I work in a school myself as a TA doing supply all over the county, and have never known a teacher who catches a bus to and from school every day. That's just from my own experience. My children would have no choice, but to get the bus, due to the distance and location of the school. This has not been addressed by the school or the council.

what about the teachers who don't drive, or who don't own cars?

I'm a teacher, I have taught in 3 counties and London. I have never driven or owned a car, and most of my colleagues don't own cars now, even if they can drive.

As I said, many schools have hardly any parking for teachers, anyway.

My point of view is of my children's school specifically, as obviously that's where they go.
I don't know of any teachers at my children's school who do not travel by car other than as I've said, one or two who cycle into school. I never said there are NO teachers ANYWHERE who do not drive. I gave my own observations from my children's school and from my own observations in my (school) workplaces. I think I've made this clear in my replies.

you implied that teachers hadn't given any consideration to the situation on the buses, because they don't use buses themselves.

I did not imply that at all. I clearly stated that the teachers and local authority at my children's school had not addressed the issue, which I do not feel they have.