Is anyone not sending their secondary school child back initially?

[lastkisstoo]

I've decided to keep my 15 year old home, probably until the October hols to see what happens.

We are in Scotland. What just happened in the pubs in Aberdeen is exactly what I see happening in schools. Mostly young adults, enclosed space, no social distancing.

My child has asthma, and while not on the list for sheltering I still feel is vulnerable enough that I don't want to see him being used as a guinea pig while the government assess just how big the uptick in cases will be on schools re-opening.

@MarshaBradyo

*disability resulting from scarred lungs loss of hearing loss of parents becoming carer for parent left disabled terrifying experiences and trauma*

All within one medium sized school
And some of those catagories have several children in them.

This does sound a lot more than my dc have encountered in school. They don’t know anyone who has tested positive. In primary there wasn’t a child, only one parent. Secondary dc says no friend has had it.

Your experience does sound different.

yes, this experience relates to a school in a hot spot, however, any area could become a hot spot very quickly.

Your family, your choice.

My children will be going back to school. Neither is vulnerable.

@nostaples I can assure you my children have covered more at home, with more thought, discussion and analysis than it’s possible to cover in a classroom.

Ha ha ha

Good luck to your children.

Our young people will be split into kids tied to their mothers' apron strings for life, some running wild or worse, neglected and abused without it being noticed or intervention.

There is one other point I would like to make, from my local experience, which is skewing the statistics.

At the height of infections, I had several people close to me hopitalised. Two who have survived have been left deeply traumatised by what they saw in hospital, people dying in front of them, staff struggling.

On my estate I have an ambulance driver I know quite well, and also a friend of my children, who was 17 at the time. The teenager became gravely ill, but was not taken to hospital. She was instead put on oxygen at home, and per mother was supported to care for her in her own bed. She has recovered now, after many months , although is another one with partial hearing loss, not severe, but measurable.

When I spoke to the ambulance driver about this, and said I was surprised and concerned that she couldn't get a bed in hospital, he told me that the hospital experience was so terrible that they had a policy of avoiding taking under 18s in, unless they were unconscious. ( not including babies and tots, who wouldn't have realised what they were seeing)

So here is one teenager, at least, who had hospital treatment at home, who was seriously ill, and has been left impaired.

She is not on any statistic. She never had a test. She never went to hospital. She is not counted either as an infection or a hospital admission.

Because she was 17.

If she had been 18 she would have counted as a positive case, and a hospital admission

@Oaktree55 I do worry about your ability to home educate your children if you don't realize the economic impact of children not going to school.

You realize that women are bearing the brunt of having to hold down jobs and manage child care at the same time?

Many have lost their jobs or will do so.

The economy is reliant on schools opening fully.

The scale of the recession will affect school aged children's health, wellbeing and success negatively much more than going to school, where the risk to them is minimal.

It is extraordinarily selfish to sacrifice young people who are the ones who will be worst affected with the consequences of this recession.

@mosquitofeast

All of those things, horrendous as they are were already risks in our society...

Scarred lungs - chicken pox, RSV, influenza, measles.

Hearing loss - mumps, measles, excessive noise/headphones/ live music, ear infections.

Loss of parent - cancer, mental illness, influenza, sepsis, car accident, accident at work.

Terrifying experiences - how about the children stuck at home with abusive parents, or less emotively, the random dumb luck of appendicitis, meningitis.

We have learned as a society to cope with a large number of challenges and we need to work out how best to protect ourselves and each other from this novel virus.

How did society recover after Spanish Flu, while recovering from the ravages of what was then known as the great war?

I don't think society in general is technologically and socially ready for schooling to largely move online, although it is commonplace in many science fiction worlds (where children's education is mentioned at all).

Access to useful internet is not yet universal, between speeds in rural areas and the cost and data limits affecting those on limited incomes moving school online would leave many behind.

Working patterns are still structured on the assumption that children will be cared for/supervised by the state or other educational environment between 9 and 3 ish. People have planned around this for years, tolerating years of minimal/negative financial returns on their time at work to reach the promised land where they only need to find wrap around care as society does not tolerate leaving young children alone.

Society will always struggle to cope with dramatic changes rather than evolution.

If this had happened in 5 or so years I think that secondary education, especially in exam years would have become largely on line (except practical elements of certain subjects where effective simulations had not become possible). Many masters level courses now follow this model, although it is not as common for undergrad. In time it will work it's way down - allowing students to study more or less what they want rather than being constrained by the expertise staff at their school and the joys of option blocks.

You can't prevent or even foresee every harm, my MIL decided not to risk going for a walk outside because it was icy, went to the big supermarket for a wander and fell over a partially constructed display, breaking her upper arm, which still troubles her 10+ years later and will do for the rest of her life. This injury has had far more effect on her day to day wellbeing than the replacement hip which resulted from trying skiing in her late 60s, although the initial injury would be considered worse and the choice of activity far greater!

Mosquito whilst SD was in place in secondary? I’m in London and even with high transmission before schools were shut this didn’t happen. Transmission was high then.

It also sounds worse than Israel by a long chalk. A situation which has reached world news.

If people want to keep their dc home, fine (legality notwithstanding) its up to them.

Where in the country are you?

Although I am a teacher I am not arrogant enough to assume I can provide my own children with the sort of social interaction, inspiration, range of ideas, resources and discussion available in a school or college in every subject.

I'm bowing out now. There's no point and no way of arguing with paranoia, arrogance and selfishness.

I wonder about the mental health of some of these ladies who want to keep their children at home. Perhaps Google codependence.

[quote nostaples]**@Oaktree55 I do worry about your ability to home educate your children if you don't realize the economic impact of children not going to school.

You realize that women are bearing the brunt of having to hold down jobs and manage child care at the same time?

Many have lost their jobs or will do so.

The economy is reliant on schools opening fully.

The scale of the recession will affect school aged children's health, wellbeing and success negatively much more than going to school, where the risk to them is minimal.

It is extraordinarily selfish to sacrifice young people who are the ones who will be worst affected with the consequences of this recession.[/quote]
But @Oaktree55 choosing to home educate her own children won't make any difference to the other women, or the children most badly affected. Nor the economy, as presumably she can either work and do it, or already isn't working.

It impacts school funding if she deregisters, but is only talking about a short term thing.

there's no point and no way of arguing with paranoia, arrogance and selfishness.

Wholeheartedly agree with this, but I think there's a bit of pot/kettle going on there.

[quote randomsabreuse]@mosquitofeast

All of those things, horrendous as they are were already risks in our society...

Scarred lungs - chicken pox, RSV, influenza, measles.

Hearing loss - mumps, measles, excessive noise/headphones/ live music, ear infections.

Loss of parent - cancer, mental illness, influenza, sepsis, car accident, accident at work.

Terrifying experiences - how about the children stuck at home with abusive parents, or less emotively, the random dumb luck of appendicitis, meningitis.

We have learned as a society to cope with a large number of challenges and we need to work out how best to protect ourselves and each other from this novel virus.

How did society recover after Spanish Flu, while recovering from the ravages of what was then known as the great war?

I don't think society in general is technologically and socially ready for schooling to largely move online, although it is commonplace in many science fiction worlds (where children's education is mentioned at all).

Access to useful internet is not yet universal, between speeds in rural areas and the cost and data limits affecting those on limited incomes moving school online would leave many behind.

Working patterns are still structured on the assumption that children will be cared for/supervised by the state or other educational environment between 9 and 3 ish. People have planned around this for years, tolerating years of minimal/negative financial returns on their time at work to reach the promised land where they only need to find wrap around care as society does not tolerate leaving young children alone.

Society will always struggle to cope with dramatic changes rather than evolution.

If this had happened in 5 or so years I think that secondary education, especially in exam years would have become largely on line (except practical elements of certain subjects where effective simulations had not become possible). Many masters level courses now follow this model, although it is not as common for undergrad. In time it will work it's way down - allowing students to study more or less what they want rather than being constrained by the expertise staff at their school and the joys of option blocks.

You can't prevent or even foresee every harm, my MIL decided not to risk going for a walk outside because it was icy, went to the big supermarket for a wander and fell over a partially constructed display, breaking her upper arm, which still troubles her 10+ years later and will do for the rest of her life. This injury has had far more effect on her day to day wellbeing than the replacement hip which resulted from trying skiing in her late 60s, although the initial injury would be considered worse and the choice of activity far greater![/quote]
yes of course they can happen anyway, but they happen ten times more in the current circumstances

labyrinthloafer and others in the stay at home tribe, if you have children, I have no idea if you do or not - then I wish you the best with your homeschool endeavours! I really do, and please know that the rest of us will enjoy getting back into school life.

My children can not wait to see their friends, their teachers and their school peg again - not to mention all the other things they are excited about, we have a countdown here now which is utterly unheard of in the summer holidays. So good luck with whatever you choose and I hope it works out for you.

@Friendsoftheearth respectfully I don't want to accept your good wishes, given our exchanges above.

I, of course, hope everyone's children will thrive whether in school or not.

@nostaples The correlation you have made between my choice to temporarily home educate my children and an assumed effect on the economy is mind boggling.

@mosquitofeast they do not happen 10 times more to children (for 10 times more you are looking at the over 70 age group with comorbities).

If you would engage with any of the information given to you or freely available you would understand that children are more at risk of practically any other common illness including flu but also chickenpox and measles than COVID.

Your comments reveal your paranoias perception only. They have no grounding in reality.

Oak leaf, I wasn’t linking your decision to hone educate your child with the economy but making the point that school closures as a whole will affect the economy.

Clearly a significant number of kids with poor qualifications and I’ll equipped to cope with leaving their mothers’ apron strings but also the disadvantaged kids who we know are doubly disadvantaged in lockdown because they are not accessing home learning will both struggle to compete in what will be a brutal jobs market but will also struggle to make a positive contribution to the economy.

I was also questioning your ability to hone educate given your misplaced anxiety which will surely transfer to your children and inability to engage with scientific or economic facts. Or maybe you just adopt the I know better approach to education too: the earth is round? No it isn’t. Evolution happened? No it didn’t. What’s outside my experience or perception simply does not exist

If government scientists say it is safe to open schools I personally trust them. You think you know better.

I’ve seen this thread hanging around for a while and couldn’t bring myself to read the paranoid hysteria that would bring someone to think it’s a good idea to keep children off school even more than they have already, by choice.

It is as depressing as anticipated.

Get a grip and get your 15 year old back to school. You are doing him more harm than good, not just by allowing him to miss education, it’s much much more than that. Your example around resilience and facing fears is appalling.

@nostaples you are losing any credibility to your argument. Yes of course Pandemics widen inequality, nature of the beast sadly. My profession is a very male dominated one. If ever women lose out, it is not due to a lack of qualifications, education or competence, but rather often a lack of confidence to push themselves forward and make difficult, confident decisions that stem from a faith in their own ability.

I commented on this thread as there are several mothers who have the time and ability to temporarily home educate but are perhaps not confident to do so.

I have never once removed my children from school early for convenience or holidays etc. Education is extremely important to me. I have always fully supported their school. However going forward schools may be “open” but education will be compromised until there is a breakthrough. I have therefore made a decision based on our individual circumstances, which obviously won’t be suitable for all. However there are many more in similar circumstances to me who perhaps don’t feel as confident to make, what is a decision that goes against the herd.

I was fortunate enough to be taught by some amazingly strong female teachers at school who instilled in us the confidence to make informed, tough, independent decisions. This for me is something I’ve used a lot in my career and hope to pass onto my daughters.

I am fully aware what suits our family may not work for another.

@notstaples
" ...also questioning your ability to hone educate given your misplaced anxiety which will surely transfer to your children and inability to engage with scientific or economic facts. Or maybe you just adopt the I know better approach to education too: the earth is round? No it isn’t. Evolution happened? No it didn’t. What’s outside my experience or perception simply does not exist"

Sheesh well given your a) general attitude to parental concerns and b) slavish acceptance of government attitudes, from someone supposed to be a teacher, I would hope you won't be teaching my children.

The economic argument for getting everyone back to school so that the economy will continue, simply won't work if we have the sort of resurgences that scientists have modelled, based on a return with inadequate social distancing and failure to shield vulnerable pupils, parents and families, and also inadequate test, track and trace. If we have huge resurgences it will be a disaster economically.

We can ward this off by having sensible plans in place, for example use of masks, the option of blended learning, acknowledging the need to protect the vulnerable. We need teachers to support pupils, parents and the vulnerable in this.

It is interesting that those that don't agree result to vitriol and personal attack.

They will be dishing fines out to all those who dont send there kids back in september !!the kids have had to much time off already send them to school it is there education and future you are playing with not your own

My 'anxiety' is not misplaced. A newly deshielded person is still just as vulnerable as they were during their lengthy isolation, and the risks to them in schools could yet be devastating

(But DC will still be returning, though the most vulnerable might not be able to attend for long - even if a bubble does not burst completely, it might be sensible to keep them off if they have any symptomatic classmates)

It’s not ‘slavish acceptance of government attitudes’ it’s evidence-based science!

A century ago some of you would be arguing against the education of girls in case ovaries dropped out!

Probably anti vaxers too 🙄 Ooh we don’t want your new tangled science here. Not when we can keep our teens as mummies boys and girls away from your pesky filth.

I have been a teacher for 20 years. I know exact what it’s like to teach the kids of parents who think their children are too precious for the rules that apply to everyone else. Not a single thought for the poor teachers, who may have legitimate concerns about going back to school, And who will pull pull out all the stops to minimise the disadvantage caused in some cases by children’s own parents