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Things not looking great in Trafford

85 replies

randomer · 03/08/2020 16:18

According to The Guardian. My guess is affluent party goers returning home to middle aged parents?

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/03/coronavirus-80-new-cases-trafford-among-white-community

OP posts:
epythymy · 03/08/2020 23:04

80? In a population of 2.8 million?

epythymy · 03/08/2020 23:08

Let's not forget that with a specificity of 99.9% there will be 10 false positives per 10,000 tests taken. Worth remembering.

Flaxmeadow · 03/08/2020 23:19

80? In a population of 2.8 million

2.8 million is the population of the whole county of Grt Manc

The 80 infections number is for Trafford, which has a population of about 200,000

epythymy · 03/08/2020 23:20

@Flaxmeadow

80? In a population of 2.8 million

2.8 million is the population of the whole county of Grt Manc

The 80 infections number is for Trafford, which has a population of about 200,000

That makes (slightly) more sense
Flaxmeadow · 03/08/2020 23:31

That makes (slightly) more sense

The article is disingenuous. Pidd has cherry picked only 4 towns/boroughs in the whole restricted region to make her point

It doesn't help that the Guardian often confusingly uses Greater Manchester (pop 2.8m) and Manchester (pop about 500,000) interchangeably.

Grt Man is actually a county with many towns and 2 cities.

Im from the north and the big story here is Blackburn and Bradford, and has been for weeks, but neither of them are even in Grt Man but the media never shuts up about the small city of 'Manchester'

Walkaround · 04/08/2020 08:39

Why are people still failing to acknowledge it’s not the number of positive cases at a particular moment that is relevant, it’s the speed of increase in cases and the increase in percentage of positive test results that indicates whether or not there is a problem? Tracking and tracing then helps to identify what is causing the problem and thus to indicate what could be done to stop cases accelerating to a point that everything is out of control again. Some people seem to think it’s not a problem until it’s too late to do anything about it, which is seriously weird thinking.

elastamum · 04/08/2020 08:47

Before lockdown in March the number of cases doubled every three days. Nothing about the virus has changed. It is only people's behaviour change that will prevent this happening again. If people just go back to normal we will soon be back where we were in March. Fortunately most people continue to make huge sacrifices to help keep others safe.

randomer · 04/08/2020 09:19

so@Flaxmeadow, you think the article is written for political capital and things aren't that bad?

Not seeking an argument. It's where I live and I am very confused.

Already in this short thread we have somebody saying they won't be venturing out and somebody saying things are exaggerated.

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Walkaround · 04/08/2020 09:28

@randomer - it’s surely quite simple? Just do what you are allowed to do and don’t do what you have been asked not to do. If enough people living around you ignore the advice, they’ll probably close unnecessary shops, pubs and restaurants next, and then maybe start telling people from Greater Manchester not to leave the area. If you want things to go the other way, then follow the advice given. No need to go further than advised - the risk isn’t great enough for that, yet, as if it were, the advice would have gone further in the first place!

randomer · 04/08/2020 09:32

How I wish it was quite simple, I like simple. You cannot escape the constant barrage of information and misinformation.

Personally, I live a quiet life and do not take risks. I find it odd that I can't pick up my AC and go out in the car but I can have a plumber round?

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RedToothBrush · 04/08/2020 09:37

Currently 0.61% of tests are positive. That’s a tiny %

Read the article

According to the article linked, tests in the area are coming back about 3% positive, though, rather than 1% as elsewhere. Surely if more tests are being done but the problem is not getting worse, that percentage should have gone down, not up?...

No. If you do 100 tests and 1% comes back positive you have 1 case.

If you have 100 tests and 3% comes back positive you have 3 cases.

If you then increase testing and are still getting a percentage of 3% positive its worrying.

You would expect that more testing would reduce the percentage of positive tests because your track and trace was successfully identifying more of the right people to test who werent being tested previously.

As the number of positive tests go up, if your number of tests is increasing by roughly the same proportion but you are still getting a 3% positive rate that suggests you are seeing expedential growth.

One of the particular problem of the virus being spread initially amongst under 25s is we know that they are much more likely to be asymptomatic than older age groups. You perhaps also have the additional factor that Trafford having higher rates of affluence and general underlying health, whilst coronavirus doesn't pose as much of a threat to the local population as they are less likely to have serious outcomes, its a breeding ground for the virus because it can spread undetected for longer, meaning that it becomes more widespread.

We know that it was the wealthier middle class travelling which seeded covid-19 in the uk. Its only when it got into older populations that we started to detect it and it started to cause wider problems. We could be seeing a repeat of that to some degree.

So this is why they will be particularly concerned about Trafford.

Walkaround · 04/08/2020 09:37

@randomer - it’s quite easy to just follow the official advice and ignore everything else, actually. What is your AC? Presumably not air conditioining?! Why is it confusing that you can have a plumber round? Do you hug plumbers and have long chats with them?

randomer · 04/08/2020 09:41

You are discouraged from taking family members out in the car. A plumber is a stranger. Never mind.

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Walkaround · 04/08/2020 09:51

What has knowing someone got to do with it, though - except that people are happier to take risks with people they know, which is why tracking and tracing indicates that it is families and friends who are spreading it to each other in the problem areas, hence the change in advice?

randomer · 04/08/2020 09:55

Family member.....clean, uninfected, very small social circle, lonely MH struggling. very very careful.

Invented Plumber figure......unknown, in and out of houses, possibly drinking in local pub which has had cases reported, possibly large social circle, possibly takes risks in order to keep business afloat,

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Walkaround · 04/08/2020 10:02

And which of those two will you be more likely to get dangerously close to, possibly even make physical contact with, and spend a lot of time talking to face to face, @randomer?

RedToothBrush · 04/08/2020 10:02

Randomer they have identified from track and trace that most infections in the area are happening where people are going to another household. Not from random fictional or non-fictional plumbers.

The community transmission isnt being driven by encounters by strangers as a rule anyway.

Purely because you dont tend to spend long periods in close contact.

RedToothBrush · 04/08/2020 10:05

Plumbers should be wearing a face mask whilst in someones home anyway.

Nobodyputsdaisyinthecorner · 04/08/2020 10:11

@Walkaround In complete agreement with you

randomer · 04/08/2020 10:13

OK, I am not being awkward but we had 2 here in a very small bathroom, without masks.

Sorry folks, I don't have the energy to continue this discussion. have a good and safe day.

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Walkaround · 04/08/2020 10:23

@randomer - better not to now get in a car with your relative then, surely?

Ponoka7 · 04/08/2020 10:24

I should imagine that most plumbers definitely don't touch their face and do wash their hands properly.

But as for the struggling relative with MH issues, it's always been allowed to have contact if it's a support reason.

The fictional scenarios with the none existent rules, need to stop.

noblegiraffe · 04/08/2020 10:32

the story is presumably cases in Trafford largely representative of local ethnicity profile

And the story is important because other areas of increased incidence have been blamed on the BAME community. Lots of racist rumblings about how those communities just won’t follow the rules and that they are to blame for the BAME community being particularly badly affected by COVID.

It appears from this story that white communities are not all fantastic rule-followers keeping COVID at bay. That’s what’s being highlighted.

RedToothBrush · 04/08/2020 10:45

@randomer

OK, I am not being awkward but we had 2 here in a very small bathroom, without masks.

Sorry folks, I don't have the energy to continue this discussion. have a good and safe day.

And you didn't challenge them???

Well thats your choice...

RedToothBrush · 04/08/2020 10:47

@noblegiraffe

the story is presumably cases in Trafford largely representative of local ethnicity profile

And the story is important because other areas of increased incidence have been blamed on the BAME community. Lots of racist rumblings about how those communities just won’t follow the rules and that they are to blame for the BAME community being particularly badly affected by COVID.

It appears from this story that white communities are not all fantastic rule-followers keeping COVID at bay. That’s what’s being highlighted.

More than that. White (entitled) middle class families in Trafford think they are safe precisely because they aren't in any of the high risk groups. Except they might be the exception to the rule and they are unwittingly causing the spread which might then enter at risk populations.