Did no one know gatherings at home were limited to 2 households?

[Grottyfeet]

So the only permitted Eid celebrations were having one brother and his family round, or one set of GPs, unless you all live together, in which case there's no change anyway?

I haven't had anyone in my house because the weather here has been lovely and we've stuck to outdoor gatherings, where up to six are allowed, but I have been vaguely aware it was only two households allowed to meet indoors. Even in the pub you're only supposed to meet up with one other household.

It does seem to have been a shocking failure of communication though.

It's all very confusing. We live in wales but have family in Wales and England. We've met with family indoors in Wales, but also met with different family in England indoors. I think both is permitted.

So, are we supposed to be going back to work or wfh where possible?

You can see why people might be confused though?

Nope. The rules are available to read online in multiple places for anyone who wants ro know what they are. Anyone who is confused just hasn't bothered checking them. The BBC website has a page about the latest social distancing rules and how they apply in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

It really isn't totally clear is it though as the rules change depending on setting.

So every day stuff it's two households of any size is ok indoors with SD, be it at home, in a estuarine, etc

but if iit's a wedding, funeral etc it can be up to 30 can be indoors at a venue with SD between households. However those same people can't then go and celebrate afterwards together indoors or outdoors, with SD with one another.

Outdoors it's 2 households of any size or 6 people from multiple households with SD, but if it's a gathering of people the numbers increase - still social distancing but more people. Those people may be people you know to total strangers.

I'm not really sure what constitutes a gathering.

OK lazylingist, if it's so clear, as a manager am I supposed to be creating a Covid secure environment and encouraging people back to work or am I supposed to be enabling them to continue to wfh, which has mostly worked very well? I've looked at the guidance repeatedly, it does say they should be enabled to work from home but the PM and other ministers are saying people should be returning. Which is it?

And @Grottyfeet how should they get there?
Public transport? Walk? Car? During rush hour, is that ok?

I don't know Evilpea, but apparently it's all perfectly clear so I'm sure someone will be along to explain.

Companies are supposed to make their own decisions now, after consulting with the workforce, and must do a risk assessment which has to be shared with employees confirming that they have made their workplace COVID secure before employees return. Basically puts the onus on employers to decide.
There is guidance by sector - here’s the office one - which details this in the “who should go to work” section
www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19/offices-and-contact-centres

Once they release restrictions on anything people just take the piss.

It's the gathering thing that is very confusing, as I have assumed that is simply for things like weddings and funerals. Mainly because for most people it would be tricky to have 30 people in their back garden socially distanced and maintaining that social distance all the time. Obviously if you have households amongst that 30 they can stick closer to each other.

However, as it is becoming clear that it is the mixing of households that is causing most problems at the moment, surely people's common sense would be to reduce contact as much as possible. But it is pretty clear that many people don't seem to have common sense. If DH and I wanted to go to a pub and the one we wanted to go to was crowded and social distancing obviously wasn't happening we would go somewhere else, we wouldn't add to the problem.

Well its up to employees how they get to the office, public transport and wear a mask and as employers look at staggering start and end times, provide cycle facilities u can so people can bike in

Common sense and as pp has provided a link to the guidance. I mean why cant you find this all yourself...are you that lazy you can go check the government site and find this yourself

Personally I think u just using all this its so confusing as an excuse really.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do

It's against the guidelines to gather outside with more than six people.
It's against the law to gather with more than 30 people.

I have, as I said, checked the guidance. It says people should continue to wfh if possible and that employers should do what they can to enable that. Then we have Mr Johnson et al telling people they should be turning to the office. I'm not lazy, no, I have read the guidance repeatedly and it doesn't say what you've just said cyclingmad!

People are fed up of the 'rules' and rightly so. Really is time to get normality back.

Those of us living in Greater Manchester are still awaiting our actual rules. Guidance has been provided, but not the legally binding rules. I've checked the legislation.gov.uk site several times but not seen any evidence of them yet. That's a couple of million people who haven't yet had access to the legislation we're supposed to be following. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

piata that’s interesting. I’m not in a lockdown are but sat lunchtime I went there and looked to see - nothing. Can’t believe you still don’t have clarity. You’d think it would be released as the announcement is made or very shortly thereafter !

I don't really understand why people are fixating on the 'laws' and dismissing the 'guidance'.

It's 'guidance' to look before you cross the road, to keep sharp knives away from children, to fit smoke detectors in your home, to not stand on window ledges 30 stories up....

Why wouldn't you follow the guidance, why get stuck on the fact that a piece of paper hasnt been issued with 'legislation' written on it.

The lockdown areas have been told not to have anyone from another household round to their home either inside or outside unless there are reasonable exceptions such as needing medical help or careers.

The supporting explanation for the change is that studies in transmission trends are showing that people's behaviour when socially interacting with friends and family on private property leads to the transmission of the virus. It makes sense, if I have a plumber come round to fix the toilet I will not be hugging, kissing, leaning against them (unless they look like Jason Mamoa, then all rules can go to hell), if I have my Family round I will be hugging them, my daughter would be attached to my MIL from beginning to end, we'd have to surgically detach them.

Yes Boris has said get back to work so now its up to employers to start phasing in people going back to the office and if shielding wfh, its not hard to understand.

Our company is already looking st doing this and preparing for it we get weekly updates on when they will start to allow people back more than they are now and its September. We had a survey and most people would like do 2-3 days in the ofdice so this will also help with maintaining distance at work.

@TorysSuckRevokeArticle50

I don't really understand why people are fixating on the 'laws' and dismissing the 'guidance'.

It's 'guidance' to look before you cross the road, to keep sharp knives away from children, to fit smoke detectors in your home, to not stand on window ledges 30 stories up....

Why wouldn't you follow the guidance, why get stuck on the fact that a piece of paper hasnt been issued with 'legislation' written on it.

The lockdown areas have been told not to have anyone from another household round to their home either inside or outside unless there are reasonable exceptions such as needing medical help or careers.

The supporting explanation for the change is that studies in transmission trends are showing that people's behaviour when socially interacting with friends and family on private property leads to the transmission of the virus. It makes sense, if I have a plumber come round to fix the toilet I will not be hugging, kissing, leaning against them (unless they look like Jason Mamoa, then all rules can go to hell), if I have my Family round I will be hugging them, my daughter would be attached to my MIL from beginning to end, we'd have to surgically detach them.

Because we don't know what the rules are actually going to say, the guidance leaves out some key areas such as childcare and those of us in the lockdown areas have been given mixed messages already. What we have already had would need to be more comprehensive and less confusing than it has been in order for your fixating comment not to be ridiculous.

Are you sure you are looking at the most up to date guidance, as this all changed on 31 July to be updated to what I described? And it was announced a few weeks ago so not sure why you don’t already know this?

Sorry, I meant to quote - that was to Grottyfeet re wfh / work in the office

The guidance on lockdown areas includes clarification on childcare - (nannies childminders and holiday clubs ok, family and friends not ok). It’s been updated several times since it was first published.

www.gov.uk/guidance/north-west-of-england-local-restrictions-what-you-can-and-cannot-do#history

@PiataMaiNei I'm in Leicester so have full awareness of how it feels to be in a lockdown area and have confusing guidance issued.

The chances of anyone actually being fined are slim, the police are not interested in enforcing the laws, so you need to use the guidance to understand what the goal is and what the science is telling you then make decisions around that.

If childcare is the issue then this is the guidance:

Can I still visit friends and family in their homes for childcare?
You should not meet with people you don’t live with in their homes or gardens. Two households, or up to 6 people from multiple households, can still meet in outdoor public places (like parks) for childcare.
Where people from single adult households (people who live alone or single parents with dependent children aged under 18) have formed a support bubble with another household, they can continue to visit each other for childcare purposes. Parents and carers can continue to use registered child care provision, including childminders. They can also continue to employ nannies (please see our guidance on working safelyy_ in other people’s

homes.)

[quote m0therofdragons]@cyclingmad but how often is it realistic for people to read the guidance? Are we supposed to check daily?[/quote]
Probably sensible to check whenever you are thinking about doing an activity which involves meeting up with a person or persons from another household? As the PP said it really doesn't take long to find the current guidelines.

Oh and if you want to compare confusing messages up till Friday in Leicester you weren't to leave your home for any unessential reason, you couldn't travel into or out of the lockdown area unless essential. But non-essential shops were open. DHSC said if you were out for something essential you could also visit the non-essential shops, so if you bought a 29p pack of paracetamol in Tesco it was OK to stop in Dorothy Perkins, Tiger and GAME but only if you bought the paracetamol.

While the guidance was unclear the message wasn't, stay at home as much as possible, reduce contact and keep to social distancing and masks to make any contact as safe as possible.