When is school funding calculated

[sunseekin]

Does anyone know when funding for schools is calculated please? I know it’s almost £4000 per student.

At my last place it was based on student numbers at October half term.

Does anyone if that is the case for primary schools now?

Just thinking parents concerns about fines for attendance are probably quite similar to the school’s own worries about loads of people withdrawing and taking funding with them.

Maybe it’s already been calculated on last year’s numbers? Can find the amount but not the date it’s awarded on google 🕵🏼‍♀️

Good question, Oct half term sounds right, let's google it: yup, schools have to make an annual October return.

Thank you! Your google skills are sooooo much better than mine!

That makes me feel better. I’m thinking they won’t want kids going unregistered before then so that makes me feel better.

I think schools care and will be understanding regardless, but it is good to know.

It's mostly calculated based on the numbers on roll at the Autumn census date which is on the 1st Thursday in October.

In Wales it’s in January.

Census day, it’s why they bribe the kids with free fish chips and ice cream that day 😀

The ice cream bribe is only for the infant free meal funding though, not the main pupil funding. That's calculated on the numbers enrolled on Census day, not the numbers who actually attend. Pupil Premium funding is calculated on the January census, I think.

There are three census during the year. The important two from a finance point of view is the first in October and the second in January.

especially important for sixth form funding

@sunseekin - at secondary it is more than just a numbers counts. The DfE collects lots of information from the census - first language, ethnicity, FSM etc. For sixth form we need to show a full timetable in order to claim money etc

@sunseekin I don't quite get your thinking here - are you planning to keep your DC home initially or what?

Yup - first Thursday in October.

yes but if they are not on roll for the second census that also impacts funding

October census for block funding
January census for nursery to EYFS
January census for pupil premium and sports premium funding.

There is a census in October and again in January.
Funds for the next year are calculated from the numbers of pupils on the registers on that day.

[quote JulyBreeze]@sunseekin I don't quite get your thinking here - are you planning to keep your DC home initially or what?[/quote]
@JulyBreeze Yes and although I don’t think fines / deregistering will be an issue, this just makes me feel a bit more reassured. Inevitably money comes into most decisions.

I think the exceptional reasons on the attendance policy would continue to cover a pandemic anyway. So long as they didn’t have concerns for the child’s safety or whether the reasons given were genuine.

I think autumn brings with it enough uncertainty to warrant genuine, justifiable reasons for absence, especially with their proposals.

I think schools will understand, after all they want to be as safe as possible too. Schools will be safer with less numbers.

I’m still going to spend my summer cross at the worry that they’re giving lots of parents and teachers though. I know not everyone is concerned but everyone and everyone’s circumstances are different.

Their ill thought out plans, based on numbers continuing to decrease, were never going to happen.

Thanks for all of the funding information everyone.

@AldiAisleofCrap

Census day, it’s why they bribe the kids with free fish chips and ice cream that day 😀

And on a different point do they really get funding for free meals based on one day? 🤯🤦🏻‍♀️ That’s bonkers.

It's based on an average of two days actually. It is a bit bonkers, but otherwise I guess it would require a lot of record-keeping. They could allocate it based on pupil numbers, but there are huge differences in the percentage take up between schools,. You could just put the basic pupil funding up instead of course, but the free meal system can really work to encourage take up of meals.

On the atrendance thing, it will depend on the school, but I wouldn't be so sure that the schools will be laid back. Unless the govt changes its mind again, attendance will go back to being compulsory in September My son's primary was already getting quite hot again on attendance even last term when it was optional - if a child had decided to come back at all, then absence was followed up very much as normal. I think they were quite keen to cut down on random days off - there was starting to be a bit of 'X isn't coming in today because it's Friday and we're going to the park', which isn't helpful to children's attitude to school longer term. In September I think they will want children to be in school, not only for safeguarding reasons but because they will be wanting to assess gaps in the children's knowledge and start filling them as quickly as possible, so they can move back to the normal curriculum. That's going to be far harder if they've got to factor in the needs of 5 children in the class who aren't quite ready to come back yet, and might cone back in October but might not. And although I see your argument that school will be safer with fewer kids, the planning and risk assessments will have been based on the whole school returning, so having a few children absent here and there is unlikely to make much difference. I may be completely wrong, but I wouldn't bank on getting agreement to your child having long term absence and staying on roll, unless you really do have exceptional circumstances.

Haha I love the idea of you trying to hold the school hostage over fines. I appreciate your concerns regarding safety and would recommend you speak with the head about this as they may be able to support you, but I'm not sure a good school would be concerned by this. We're over subscribed and would be happy for parents to threaten to remove their kids and so would most schools in our area. If it's a 'money place' we need we could replace your child easily.

Also fines are given by the local authority and although heads usually pass them on some have little control on this so even if the school wanted to they may not be able to anything about this.

To reiterate I fully appreciate your concerns with safety (many parents and teachers share them)but if you haven't already please try and speak with the head about these before potentially making threats which might back fire.

@anothershrubbery I think what you’ve described is exactly what they mean re fines will be part of the system - you can’t expect to be in and out. It has to be genuine concerns not various whims because you feel like a park day etc. We can’t treat everyone like they’re just after whimsical park days though obviously.

@MoreW1ne that’s your idea not mine 😂 I’m playing my cards close to my chest at the moment so I am not talking to the head just yet. If I do need to talk to the head, funding won’t come into the conversation at all!

The situation is so fluid - I don’t think there is much point. And I think he probably thinks similar to me - I feel like they’ve been a bit gagged a bit atm.

If I do need to talk to the head, funding won’t come into the conversation at all! It’s just good to know. Schools want our children. They want to teach our children and they want what is best for our children.

Avoiding unnecessary conflict is a policy that has served me well in life. I’ve just put this here for people like me who have genuine concerns about school in September.

Schools won’t want to lose people and students with genuine concerns. Enrolling and supporting students they don’t know wouldn’t be very easy in a pandemic.

The government doesn’t want to force people out of the system and get all of the social problems that brings.

Not trying to be inflammatory but I’m conscious that I’m not alone in thinking about keeping my children off in September, so I’m putting this here in case it reassures just one other person in some way.