Anyone think masks will need to be worn in school?

[Deardonkey]

As we are going to need to wear masks in more places from 8th August I was thinking about schools.
Does anyone else think they will be compulsory at secondary schools if they go back in September ?
I worry for my DS as he has ASD and other special needs, mask will make it difficult for him to both understand and be understood.

When you're wrong you really should stop digging. It's embarrassing.

I am pissed off my Union is calling for mask wearing in school. I don’t want this and I wasn’t consulted on it.

Then don't wear one @bluesapphirestars

But others want the choice.

But the unions are demanding they are made compulsory, ergo I will have to. I have absolutely no issue with others wearing masks if they wish to but I personally don’t want to.

@5363738383j they are useless because kids socialise outside of those bubbles.

Also ... each child right now can be in 5 different childcare settings everyday of the week!?

@bluesapphirestars

But the unions are demanding they are made compulsory, ergo I will have to. I have absolutely no issue with others wearing masks if they wish to but I personally don’t want to.

I thought they meant compulsory for children.

That would be awful, if so.

I think the teaching of science may have to change if young people are to keep up with the new theories of viral behaviour.

In the old days it was quite simple - virus - susceptible host - replication.

But now we have a new stranger/danger.

Now the identity of the host is significant - stranger you spend a short time with but do not not normally meet = danger - police enforcement of mask wearing.

Work/school colleague you spend all day with - that's fine. Even if there are hundreds of them. You must not wear a mask. (Because the virus knows you know Dave and therefore he is on the safe list).

I wonder why, in lockdown, following community transmission, transmission is familial?

When you ease lockdown and individuals come into contact, how are isolated family groups infected? That's a real head scratcher.

Given that transmission does not follow this guidance I'm starting to think the virus didn't get the memo.

I think it will happen in high schools, I can’t see it working with younger children or those (like my dd) who is in a sn school.

From the article you linked to @Fantasisa

Research on how well various types of masks and face coverings varies but, recently, and in light of the pandemic of COVID-19, experts are increasingly leaning toward the notion that something is better than nothing.

A University of Oxford study published on March 30 concluded that surgical masks are just as effective at preventing respiratory infections as N95 masks for doctors, nurses and other health care workers.

It's too early for their to be reliable data on how well they prevent infection with COVID-19, but the study found the thinner, cheaper masks do work in flu outbreaks.

The difference between surgical or face masks and N95 masks lies in the size of particles that can - and more importantly, can't - get though the materials.

N95 respirators are made of thick, tightly woven and molded material that fits tightly over the face and can stop 95 percent of all airborne particles, while surgical masks are thinner, fit more loosely, and more porous.

This makes surgical masks much more comfortable to breathe and work in, but less effective at stopping small particles from entering your mouth and nose.

Droplets of saliva and mucous from coughs and sneezes are very small, and viral particles themselves are particularly tiny - in fact, they're about 20-times smaller than bacteria.

For this reason, a JAMA study published this month still contended that people without symptoms should not wear surgical masks, because there is not proof the gear will protect them from infection - although they may keep people who are coughing and sneezing from infecting others.

But the Oxford analysis of past studies- which has not yet been peer reviewed - found that surgical masks were worth wearing and didn't provide statistically less protection than N95 for health care workers around flu patients.

However, any face mask is only as good as other health and hygiene practices. Experts universally agree that there's simply no replacement for thorough, frequent hand-washing for preventing disease transmission.

Some think the masks may also help to 'train' people not to touch their faces, while others argue that the unfamiliar garment will just make people do it more, actually raising infection risks.

So what about cloth coverings? Although good quality evidence is lacking, some data suggest that cloth masks may be only marginally (15 per cent) less effective than surgical masks in blocking emission of particles, said Babak Javid, principal investigator at Cambridge University Hospitals wrote in the BMJ on April 9.

He pointed to a study led by Public Health England in 2013 which found wearing some kind of material over the face was fivefold more effective than not wearing masks for preventing a flu pandemic.

The study suggested that a homemade mask 'should only be considered as a last resort to prevent droplet transmission from infected individuals, but it would be better than no protection'

Masks/coverings are better than no protection. So why are you saying no masks?

At least with the changes in mask guidance now coming on 8th any teacher who wants to wear a mask should and should not worry anymore about a head teacher trying to stop you.

Dont ask permission. Even if a head has previously said no, just wear the mask, then force your head teacher to tell you to take it off...and get their request in writing. There are some really crap heads out there, but going to be a stupid one that does that.

Guess there's no point in bubbles then, is there.
Well I can't see how they will be very effective in secondary schools. Bubbles of up to 250 kids, many with siblings in other year group bubbles, and teachers moving freely between the bubbles. Plus many kids travelling on school buses or public transport with nobody but the driver to supervise mask wearing.

Bubbles of 300+ for me. Totally pointless.

In short, OP: no.

In short OP, yes. If people want schools to remain open. Otherwise they will shut again v quickly. Not teachers fault. The virus doesn't listen to us. Or government guidelines. It's never heard of a bubble.

Disagree, @mumsneedwine

We just have to learn to live with this virus, as we have learned to live with all kinds of viruses. Schools shutting is based on a parent being at home; a parent can only be at home if either WFH or furloughed. A f/t WFH parent cannot be looking after and educating a primary-aged child. We can't afford any more furlough. Several industries (including mine: arts) are royally fucked already. Schools will - and have to - remain open come what may, because there is not the money available to cover parents to stay at home.

My last remaining school-aged child's school (independent) has already said it is opening, fully, come what may, in September. For that I am immensely grateful.

@Koennt if teachers, and children, get sick schools will close. I have lost 2 colleagues at the start of lockdown and have a 16 year old student who now needs a lung transplant. I'm sorry if this is a bit inconvenient to you but people are dying. And getting v v long term sick. Children as well as adults. Transmission of all viruses in schools is rampant.
We can not keep schools open if we do not have enough staff healthy. I don't want this to happen but it will.

Schools will - and have to - remain open come what may, because there is not the money available to cover parents to stay at home.

You can demand all you want, but words won't change the situation in September. If children and staff get ill they will have to isolate. If several children get ill entire bubbles will potentially have to isolate. If several teachers have to isolate, then there's a chance the school may have to close. Demanding that they remain open come what may isn't going to prevent them from closing.

Schools were closing before lockdown because teachers were self isolating or were ill. That will happen again, come what may, independent or state.

@Fantasia I know of of several cases where it almost certainly was kid to teacher transmission. Boris has not collected this data so you have no basis for your statement.
In my case it would be very hard for it to be someone else other than a student.
I was in at school second week of Easter holidays for key worker children, developed covid under a week later. Had not been out at all other than to work, my 2 uni aged Dc at home had not left the house at all, even for exercise and my DH had been tested as negative ( work related) We were eating the contents of my larder and freezer and have a veg box and milk delivered so hadn’t been out to the shops. Very socially distanced from other staff in the same day, and there were very few of us.
A few days later one of my colleagues also developed covid, she hadn’t been in school on the same days as me, was also only going to work and not elsewhere.

I also personally know of 2 under 25 year olds who have died from covid so whilst it may be asymptomatic in many ( friends dc tested positive had no idea where or when he had it) it most certainly can have devastating consequences in some.

Schools will - and have to - remain open come what may, because there is not the money available to cover parents to stay at home

That’s not the staff or schools issue. Their safety and that of the children is more important than parental wants.

@MoreW1ne - it’s not headteachers saying teachers and pupils shouldn’t wear masks. It’s the government guidance

At our school we all have a choice. The Head wants the school community to feel safe. Tons of hand gel, one way systems etc. Staff can wear masks if they want. Students can wear masks if they want.

Probably 30% of year 10 came in wearing masks in June. It was fine.