Chris Witty "We're at the limits of the contact we can allow"

[confusedandold]

I've been watching the Press conference and I always find Chris Witty the voice of reason. He is saying that we are at the limit of what we can open without the virus spreading further and we may even have to take a step back. So where does this leave the opening of schools in a few weeks time?

@jomartin281271

I'm in favour of schools opening safely, but I wish Chris Whitty would come clean about the 'bubbles' the government claim our kids will be in. Every child, teacher and member of staff will be touching the same doors, stair rails and other surfaces that the rest of the school has been in contact with. They will also be breathing in the aerosols that the 'bubble' who used the corridor five minutes ago exhaled. The idea that our kids are in a 'bubble' is nonsense. There is only one bubble at the school. It contains every child and member of staff who is attending the school. At some secondary schools this could be in the thousands. There needs to be a plan B. The idea that the schools can re-open in full and it will not cause the R rate to increase is a fantasy. Many parents need their children to be at school so they can get to work. These children should go to school. Many parents are in poor health or have grandparents living in the house and they want to continue to educate their children at home. This should be allowed. The key thing here, is that parental choice should take precedent over a blanket government rule. If only half the amount of children were at school, it would make it safer for teachers and for the families of the children who were attending. There has never, in my lifetime, been a time when parental choice was as important as it is now. We should make ourselves heard.

I completely agree with this.

other things that are nice but not crucial like visiting family cafes cinemas gyms

These a crucial sectors for the people working in them. Jobs are crucual, not a nice to have. Or do we just accept that the millions employed by certain sectors lose everything?

It’s become clear that lockdown only works if it’s permanent. Whenever it’s lifted the virus returns.

We’ve got two options: lockdown until a vaccine is found, which will destroy our economy & our children’s futures; or accept that the vulnerable shield themselves, if they choose to, while the rest of us get back to normal. Schools, offices, shops, pubs, churches, football matches, gyms, all open.

I’ve got a lung condition - but I’ve also got kids who need education & jobs & a future. So I vote for the second option. That’s because I believe we need to put children and young people first. As my 89 year old mother said to me yesterday (before getting on a bus to do her shopping): ‘people do die of illnesses, you know’.

I honestly think Chris Whitty has lost sight of the overall goal - to preserve our society and our children’s future. He’s become an obstacle to that. I’m really worried he’s throwing my kids’ futures away; he’s more of a threat to them than Covid is.

@jomartin281271
I'm in favour of schools opening safely, but I wish Chris Whitty would come clean about the 'bubbles' the government claim our kids will be in. Every child, teacher and member of staff will be touching the same doors, stair rails and other surfaces that the rest of the school has been in contact with. They will also be breathing in the aerosols that the 'bubble' who used the corridor five minutes ago exhaled. The idea that our kids are in a 'bubble' is nonsense. There is only one bubble at the school. It contains every child and member of staff who is attending the school. At some secondary schools this could be in the thousands. There needs to be a plan B. The idea that the schools can re-open in full and it will not cause the R rate to increase is a fantasy. Many parents need their children to be at school so they can get to work. These children should go to school. Many parents are in poor health or have grandparents living in the house and they want to continue to educate their children at home. This should be allowed. The key thing here, is that parental choice should take precedent over a blanket government rule. If only half the amount of children were at school, it would make it safer for teachers and for the families of the children who were attending. There has never, in my lifetime, been a time when parental choice was as important as it is now. We should make ourselves heard
I completely agree with this too.

It's summer, socialise outside at a distance, not ideal but possible. We are still in a global pandemic.

It seems the main problem is transmission within households... so even if things were shit like gyms (ours is ultra quiet anyway) and pubs, then the problem remains.

@Thesilkshawl

It’s become clear that lockdown only works if it’s permanent. Whenever it’s lifted the virus returns.

We’ve got two options: lockdown until a vaccine is found, which will destroy our economy & our children’s futures; or accept that the vulnerable shield themselves, if they choose to, while the rest of us get back to normal. Schools, offices, shops, pubs, churches, football matches, gyms, all open.

I’ve got a lung condition - but I’ve also got kids who need education & jobs & a future. So I vote for the second option. That’s because I believe we need to put children and young people first. As my 89 year old mother said to me yesterday (before getting on a bus to do her shopping): ‘people do die of illnesses, you know’.

I honestly think Chris Whitty has lost sight of the overall goal - to preserve our society and our children’s future. He’s become an obstacle to that. I’m really worried he’s throwing my kids’ futures away; he’s more of a threat to them than Covid is.

I think the problem with saying vulnerable should shield and everyone else crack on is

A) the number of vulnerable people and the essential jobs that many of them do

B) you're sort of assuming that large numbers of non vulnerable people catching C19 won't be a problem - but a proportion of them will need hospital care, even ITU, and there's some evidence to suggest that even those with mild cases are being left with long term, serious health problems.

I'm not sure it's ethical to just send the non vulnerable out like that.

shut sorry!

Thesilk - question is, if you take all the vulnerable out of schools (if we define 'vulnerable' as 'those who have underlying conditions and really shouldn't work in a non socially distanced, non mask wearing environment') then schools won't be able to open fully.

If you pretend that all the 'vulnerable' are old and not economically active, and therefore can be 'removed' without anything else being affected, I am afraid that the reality will come as a nasty shock.

"There’s always one. Closer than school inaccessible to many and ft to others based on job of parent."

Vulnerable children, children with sen who cannot be taught remotely?

@christinarossetti19
Yes, and we have already had an attendance letter from the school, which acknowledges that the time he has had off is all due to an operation, I'll health and essential appointments. Unfortunately we have not had a great history with school, and this is reflected in the relationship we have with them. It is frustrating, especially as they have provided little support or input over lockdown

@Choukette I realise this is the advice as as it stands. We spoke to ds's paediatrician just before the shielding advice (to pause in August) was issued. His paed recommended him to shield until next set of advice....we are now awaiting a call from him regarding school. His secretary has said that unfortunately they are not receiving guidance until the very last minute, and it is tricky to get in touch with all the relevant children. The information around shielding has not been clear, and has not been issued in such a way as to engender much faith. (Example would be....what is the shielding advice for those in Manchester and the North at the moment?...considering many shoulders will be returning to work on Monday)

Imo they are heading for masks for stuff that will stay open.
Shops incl opticians etc banks
Cinema
Nail and hair dressers.

So what will have to shut
Schools...
Pubs/restaurants at least indoors
Gyms trampoline places
Play parks probably as i assume some kids are loitering and not washing hands and meeting other friends.

It seems the main problem is transmission within households

Cases are so low here, in this borough it’s surprising (London so not remote, the reverse). Household transmission isn’t giving the same patterns, no where near. Local response makes sense over national closure.

Of course there will be spikes when schools open.

Secondary bubble around 300 pupils, most use public transport, they will be on the same buses and tubes as workers.

We all know what school can be like when bugs go around. How many end up at home with stomach bugs, flu and more.

Schools haven't been given any extra money for this. Whatever happened to the elusive laptops that were promised along with broadband because over a millions kids don't have this?

You would have thought by now that any government would have realised and invested in online learning. Every year kids miss large proportions of their education because they are too ill to go school, or the lift is broken. etc. If schools cannot do class and online learning for a handful of students, realistically how will they be able to for all their pupils. Extend staff hours, there's not even enough in the kitty for the promised staff pay rise, never mind the sanitiser they need.

There's no extra money. for cleaners, it will be staff trying to clean between lessons, which in reality will be at the beginning of the lesson unless teachers stay in one room all day.

Maybe parents need to also be in that bubble for childcare to help each. other out. If 10 class mates are off, they are grouped together across fewer homes to help stop the spread. Virus free homes could do practical things like shopping and cooking. Had this happened when mine were in primary, I could see us doing something like this. Would also help with the school runs as well.

The same could be done for when schools close and the bubble kids still meet as smaller groups in someone's home, and of course this gives more flexibility outside the normal school hours.

Of course it's not foolproof because well lack of equipment for families, lack of equipment in schools, my sons school cannot do online learning they don't have the servers for this, because it's never been needed and of course, money.

How many schools do have the systems in place that would let every single pupil and staff online at the same time? We all know what happens when too many people log on at the same time, things crash. And even though there was some online studying going on, figures were low because nothing new was supposed to be taught.

@cantkeepawayforever

Thesilk - question is, if you take all the vulnerable out of schools (if we define 'vulnerable' as 'those who have underlying conditions and really shouldn't work in a non socially distanced, non mask wearing environment') then schools won't be able to open fully.

If you pretend that all the 'vulnerable' are old and not economically active, and therefore can be 'removed' without anything else being affected, I am afraid that the reality will come as a nasty shock.

Yep. I’m a teacher and classified as vulnerable. So I’d be at home along with many colleagues.

"It seems the main problem is transmission within households.."
And where is the virus getting to the family member? Muddled info and bollocks about British common sense.

I think the main routes of transmission are prolonged indoor contact, workplaces, family homes with visitors public transport, indoor restaurants pubs cinemas etc

indoors where you might walk past someone but not stay close probably less of a risk a library, museum art gallery banking most shopping are less of a risk than prolonged contact in same space

I think that minor fleeting contact from passing too close in corridors, shopping aisles, touching surfaces that someone else may have touched is much further down the list of what is actually causing most cases it is not that these are not possible transmission routes but compared to above are much much smaller

The risks from things that might have touched by someone else hours ago I think are fairly minimal food shopping, mail, outdoor surfaces, library books,

DD's High School will be opening with zoned areas for each year but as far as I can see there won't be any communal areas. Canteen will be closed with a limited packed lunch option brought to the zoned areas. No gym changing, pe will be limited to what can be done in the areas designated and in uniform.
My DD has done fine with home schooling but even she wants to go back and I think her progress if she doesn't will stall. We can keep occupied but I can't teach her most subjects.
Life is going to remain constrained for some time I fear.

are they closing swimming pools in the UK or just in the areas mentioned in the press conference?

They will open schools even if they close everything else. Gav said that a while ago.

It's not Gav's decision. It's Dom's.

Nothing a minister says should ever be taken to indicate what the government is going to do. They don't know what they're going to do. Even if they did know they would say they're going to do something different.

I'm not surprised this is what England wants*, but still disappointed.

*I want Swedish strategy, but heyho. I accept most Uk people don't agree with me. These conditions won't last forever.

They looked at contact tracing which picked up transmission between households

@TheHoneyBadger
That's ok, haven't you heard, ex staff are lining up ready to walk into a school?

Not sure where this daft idea comes from. Realistically, if this recruitment nhs style was to happen, it would have already to help deliver home learning for the past few months.

With or without the possible pay rise, not worth all the aggro from parents. Calls to collect sick child and endless, oh I cannot get there for at least another 2 hours often conveniently near to home time!

Kids already get dosed up with calpol to reduce temp and sent to school. This will continue. Just like the kid with the stomach bug sent in several hours after their last explosion. If fines are to be issued it should be to those parents.

Does anyone know if nits were eradicated from classrooms before they all closed? All I remember is dreading the first week back after the holidays, knowing the bastards would be back