Chris Witty "We're at the limits of the contact we can allow"

[confusedandold]

I've been watching the Press conference and I always find Chris Witty the voice of reason. He is saying that we are at the limit of what we can open without the virus spreading further and we may even have to take a step back. So where does this leave the opening of schools in a few weeks time?

And 186 outbreaks in four weeks with minimal numbers of kids back in is not nothing. It's just that the national papers didn't report it. At all.
Define outbreak

Again
I look at the ONS data and the actual risk is very very low

Listening

I cannot be 2m away from children at the front of my class, or I cannot get every child into the room.

As I teach primary pupils, a lecture from the front procedure is barely better than online as it is, but if i stand in the only place in the room where I don't block a child's view of what is on the board, the nearest child is 75 cm from me.

And given where the only opening window is, all ventilation runs from the back to the front of the room, carrying exhaled breath from all 34 other people in the class directly towards me.

@iVampire

What do you mean like children have been cooped in 1 room for the past few months?

?? Even shielded children have been allowed out for unlimited outdoor leisure and to meet (with distancing) a certain number

Only very recently. For months shield people were advised not to leave home. Gov advice specifically said get someone else to put your bin outside.

cantkeep
OK, so what is your solution ?
Denying children education is not an answer ....
how would you make it work in your classroom if you were in charge ?

The definition of outbreak is the same as it is for every other setting. I wasn't aware schools needed a different threshold for health and safety measures.

Oh wait. Yes I was.

Piggy
So what is the definition of an outbreak?
presumably it also applies to measles, TB, mumps, german measles and all the other notifiable diseases that schools have to cope with ....

Is it high? 186 out of what 30,000 plus schools? Feels representative of what’s in the community, you’ll get those cases out of schools.

Listening , I would have thought with all your wisdom you would know this. I am not going to say, because you will then diminish it.

Not al notifiable disease lead to partial or full shutdowns, largely because of vaccination. Norovirus is the most common. Different procedures for different notifiable illnesses.

piggywaspushed
I've found it
an outbreak is two cases
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/343723/12_8_2014_CD_Outbreak_Guidance_REandCT_2__2_.pdf

Yes, see you can do it yourself.

Piggywaspushed
I'm clever me - I can use google

Interestingly by that definition there was an outbreak of TB in my hall of residence at Uni first year.
The chap who brought it into the UK passed it to two people in his flat
and their whole building was tested
and we were told to not stay over in that building till all the negatives came through
but the rest of the Uni was utterly unaffected

2m does not always work indoors that’s why it’s been shown to spread many more metres in restaurants and busts etc and infect numerous people.

I would like schools to reopen in a way that is sustainable when local and larger spikes occur throughout the coming winter & spring.

My kids are both Autistic.
One on a 50% timetable last year (after the GP wrote to the School, after the School had called in attendance officer and I was threatened with fine. The GP rightly pointed out that, as no SEN support in place, child found full time attendance impossible)
One on a full time timetable, but managed about 80% which left him so stressed he was having seizure like activity and has been referred for epilepsy assessment (still waiting, from Feb)

I do not wish to remove them from the school roll as it will be harder to apply for an EHCp then (Psych thinks my Ds should have, dd too)

BUT they have a 40mile round trip on a public bus to their catchment school (rural). The SEN 'support room' in the school will be closed.
How the jeffrey will this work? They will be safer at home for sure.

Why not let those parents who can / wish home ed until Easter?
But no, the Govt will go in hard with fines. Pfff.

@AccountAntsy

How can people not worry about their children’s health and lives?

How can people not worry about their children’s health and lives? I do; which is why I understand that 6 months of school closures has done more damage to children than Covid. How long does this go on for? Another 6 months? Another year?

This o agree my son was too scared to get out of the car at one point at 5 that scared me more than this fucing virus

But the actual Hall of residence was closed down as was mine when Hep B struck. That's a microcosm, much as a school is. We wouldn't expect all schools to close but one, fi there was an outbreak. As it goes, whole nurseries didn't close when 23 people tested positive so I think you are safe from any concerns of over reaction or hysterical closing.

Older school buildings are probably better ventilated than new.
The old school I worked in (built 1930s) was demolished and replaced by a new building. The old one had fully opening windows and corridors and walkways that opened onto a quadrangle. You could open doors and windows in the summer and get plenty of fresh air, and the very efficient heating system kept classrooms warm in winter, but not stuffy. The new one had windows with limiters, and a design that allowed no throughflow of air. It was stuffy in winter and unbearable in summer. There was no air con because, though originally specified, the LA removed it as too expensive. The building actually didn’t work without air con.

Quite a few newer built schools had sick building syndrome identified in the PFI period.

@ListeningQuietly

Piggy So what is the definition of an outbreak? presumably it also applies to measles, TB, mumps, german measles and all the other notifiable diseases that schools have to cope with ....

Thankfully there are very few outbreaks of any of those diseases in schools because there are vaccines. We had a mumps outbreak at uni, cue mass vaccination campaign (we were mostly too old to have had the MMR vaccine as children). Unfortunately we don't have a covid vaccine, so that method doesn't work.

Interestingly, we had a very immune compromised child a few years back and even the thought of all the notifiable illnesses sent the school into a tailspin because we had to do massive seating plans if the boy was even taught in our room, never change where anyone sat, wipe down desks and almost seal this boy off from any danger, in case there was an outbreak of anything. And that was to protect one shielding type child from rare communicable illnesses. And yet, now, apparently it's all OK. As you were.

I work special ed. Kids don't understand SD. Many need staff close up.

We are advised PPE is not needed and no extra funding for cleaning.

But then again I'm sure government actually give no shits if these disabled children and their families are affected.

@ListeningQuietly

cantkeep OK, so what is your solution ? Denying children education is not an answer .... how would you make it work in your classroom if you were in charge ?

I would do as we did for partial opening - have half the children in the class, 1 per desk (I didn't mention that not only am I 75 cm from the closest child, but every child is physically touching another child when they are seated in pairs).

As I did for partial opening, I would teach one group physically, and another remotely (though in September that would be a lot easier, because then I was teaching 15 children of 1 year group face to face and 32 of another year group remotely while this time I would be teaching the same year in both groups).

I would have each group in school for half the week, with a very thorough clean on the swapover day at lunchtime.

I would be completely happy to forgo PPA for the time being, or each half class could have a lesson of PE or MFL with a specialist to give me a little non contact time. I would also be happy to make the school days longer, to compensate for the lack of after school clubs.

I would start planning all subjects now so that I could make real use of the teaching time in school and set meaningful work at home, supported by narrated Powepoints and packs of paper resources picked up when they are in school.

Older school buildings are probably better ventilated than new

Well thats a new spin on drafty, leaky and in need of repairs i guess.

If we e reached our limits they better bloody close the pubs before they consider messing kids around any further, it's just not on how kids have been shoved to the bottom of the pile!!